identifying...Babylon the great

Quahom1

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Re: Babylon the great

mee said:
Daniel 12;4
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant............"As most bible students realize many of the prophecies in the book of revelation are tied up with the prophecies in Daniel . yes make no mistake about it , the book of revelation most certainly is for our day ,it is being revealed and uncovered and we are now in the Lords day, and have been since 1914 when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly kingdom goverment, thrilling times indeed

Yep, and the original "Babylon" has been sacked again. Right in our times, as we live and breathe. So, which is it? The original "Babylon"? or some new "Babylon"? Can't have two Babylons...and you still haven't shown 1914 in Daniel, or any other part of the Bible...
 

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Re: Babylon the great

Quahom1 said:
Yep, and the original "Babylon" has been sacked again. Right in our times, as we live and breathe. So, which is it? The original "Babylon"? or some new "Babylon"? Can't have two Babylons...and you still haven't shown 1914 in Daniel, or any other part of the Bible...
the Babylon in the book of revelation is Babylon the GREAT and the reason she is having that name is because she has many similar things in her that the ancient Babylon had. the significant date 1914 is very clear indeed to those who are willing to see. for me, i see it very clear indeed . yes the signs are all happening . thrilling times indeed.
 

Marsh

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Re: Babylon the great

Quahom1 said:
Yep, and the original "Babylon" has been sacked again. Right in our times, as we live and breathe. So, which is it? The original "Babylon"? or some new "Babylon"? Can't have two Babylons...and you still haven't shown 1914 in Daniel, or any other part of the Bible...

King Nebuchadnezzer stands at his window, gazes out at the city of which he is king, and says, "Is this not Babylon the great?" Then God makes him go insane and eat grass. With all the references to Daniel that have come up in this thread, I'm surprised that this particular reference has not, considering that the exact phrase "Babylon the great" is used.
 

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Re: Babylon the great

Marsh said:
King Nebuchadnezzer stands at his window, gazes out at the city of which he is king, and says, "Is this not Babylon the great?" Then God makes him go insane and eat grass. With all the references to Daniel that have come up in this thread, I'm surprised that this particular reference has not, considering that the exact phrase "Babylon the great" is used.
The Babylon the great in the book of revelation, is the world empire of false religion , and she has a worldwide influence.
Babylon the Great has been judged worthy of destruction by reason of her historical record of spiritual fornication with world rulers, her bloodguilt in wars, and her spiritistic practices. Therefore, Jehovah God has judicially determined that Satan’s world empire of false religion must be terminated.—Revelation 18:3, 23, 24. and it will happen because the bible always comes true.
In highly symbolic language, the book of Revelation describes the destruction of Babylon the Great. At Revelation 17:16 we read: "The ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.
According to Bible prophecy, the political powers associated with the United Nations will turn against the world empire of false religion and devastate her. All false religions will be affected.
It remains to be seen just what further issues will provoke the political elements worldwide to act against false religion. But one thing is certain—the execution of Babylon the Great by these elements will be not only their will but also the will of God. Revelation 17:17 states: "God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished."—Compare Jeremiah 51:12, 13.
Make no mistake. The execution of Babylon the Great will not simply be the expression of political enmity toward religious arrogance and interference. The political rulers will be God’s involuntary tools for the destruction of false worship worldwide. Yes, "her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind."—Revelation 18:5. yes God uses whom ever he wants to accomplish his purpose . even though they think they are doing what they want, Jehovah God can use whomever he wants.
 

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Re: Babylon the great

mee said:
The Babylon the great in the book of revelation, is the world empire of false religion , and she has a worldwide influence.

It certainly could be. But this explanation seems a little troublesome for me (and yet at the same time it makes perfect sense to Mee-- pun definitely intended:). Why? Well, the imagery in the book of Daniel is very consistent with that of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, so I can't help but think that "Babylon the Great" and Nebuchadnezzer's Babylonian empire are related. The Babylonian empire seems to have been political in its nature, rather than religious; an actual physical empire, or country, rather than an ideological one. It's only after Nebuchadnezzer has begun to rule that he attempts to establish a false religion over his subjects-- specifically, the worship of the golden image. And actually, I believe that the Revelation refers to Babylon the Great as a city-- perhaps the capital city of a country or empire. And really, when you stop and think about it, our modern system of dividing the world into countries is kind of like having a collection of empires, with every country being an empire.

When John is shown the vision of the harlot (which is Babylon the Great), he is "amazed" at what he sees. Maybe it's just me but I can't help but think that he saw something that he knew, or that already existed at his time. Otherwise, he would have been more confused than amazed at what he saw, or maybe he wouldn't have understood the significance of what he saw. So if John saw a city that already existed at his time, and that he knew, then why couldn't that city be Jerusalem? I mean, it would be pretty amazing to see that it's your very own spiritual capital city that becomes the great harlot. I mean, Rome seems to be a pretty obvious choice, but it seems to me that prophecy is more mysterious than obvious. And really, can you think of a more significant city in the world than Jerusalem? Also, why would there be any need for a New Jerusalem if the old one could be rennovated? (I'm only half kidding here).

If I may also point something else out with regards to the issue of the beast that was, then was not, but will come up out of the abyss to its destruction: At the time that John received his vision, Israel as a sovereign state was not. In the days of David Israel was a sovereign state. Today, Israel is a sovereign state. Therefore, Israel was, then was not, and has come again; perhaps the beast is Israel itself-- political Israel, I mean; the government, not the people. This would also explain God's warning, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her punishment (paraphrased)."

Also, referring to the imagery of Daniel again, Israel as a decendant of Babylon makes sense to some degree. If you look at the empires that are referred to in the imagery of the statue, the common theme that all of them have is that they rule over Jerusalem: first Babylon, then Persia, then Greece, and finally Rome. Since then who has taken rule over Jerusalem? The Ottomans took it from Rome, the British took it from the Ottomans, and the Israelis have taken it from the British-- at least partially. Some of it still belongs to Jordan, no? Seven heads: Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Brits, and Israelis? Take it back one step further and you get Israelis at the beginning and the end of the list. According to the Revelation there is an eighth king that is one of the seven; Israel fits this description, kind of like in the same way that a political leader can fall from power and then return to power after a term.

Of course, these are just thoughts that I've had. I've done a great deal of struggling with these two books, but still am not confident in the conclusions I've drawn.

Also, I'd like to ask for forgiveness in advance for suggesting that Jerusalem could be portrayed as a harlot, and that Israel could be symbolized as a beast; nobody wants their city or country to be described in negative terms, I'm sure, so if anyone on this forum is from Jerusalem, or attaches particular importance to Jerusalem, or if there are any Israelis reading this, please accept my apologies and know that I'm only making this suggestion in the interest of scholarly discussion.
 

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Re: Babylon the great

All seems like choice to me...living in Babylon/Egypt....choice.

Cross the Jordan, enter Israel....choice.

Look back on S&G.....choice.

life's so bright I gotta wear shades!

choice.
 

mee

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Re: Babylon the great

Marsh said:
It certainly could be. But this explanation seems a little troublesome for me (and yet at the same time it makes perfect sense to Mee-- pun definitely intended:). Why? Well, the imagery in the book of Daniel is very consistent with that of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, so I can't help but think that "Babylon the Great" and Nebuchadnezzer's Babylonian empire are related. The Babylonian empire seems to have been political in its nature, rather than religious; an actual physical empire, or country, rather than an ideological one. It's only after Nebuchadnezzer has begun to rule that he attempts to establish a false religion over his subjects-- specifically, the worship of the golden image. And actually, I believe that the Revelation refers to Babylon the Great as a city-- perhaps the capital city of a country or empire. And really, when you stop and think about it, our modern system of dividing the world into countries is kind of like having a collection of empires, with every country being an empire.

When John is shown the vision of the harlot (which is Babylon the Great), he is "amazed" at what he sees. Maybe it's just me but I can't help but think that he saw something that he knew, or that already existed at his time. Otherwise, he would have been more confused than amazed at what he saw, or maybe he wouldn't have understood the significance of what he saw. So if John saw a city that already existed at his time, and that he knew, then why couldn't that city be Jerusalem? I mean, it would be pretty amazing to see that it's your very own spiritual capital city that becomes the great harlot. I mean, Rome seems to be a pretty obvious choice, but it seems to me that prophecy is more mysterious than obvious. And really, can you think of a more significant city in the world than Jerusalem? Also, why would there be any need for a New Jerusalem if the old one could be rennovated? (I'm only half kidding here).

If I may also point something else out with regards to the issue of the beast that was, then was not, but will come up out of the abyss to its destruction: At the time that John received his vision, Israel as a sovereign state was not. In the days of David Israel was a sovereign state. Today, Israel is a sovereign state. Therefore, Israel was, then was not, and has come again; perhaps the beast is Israel itself-- political Israel, I mean; the government, not the people. This would also explain God's warning, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her punishment (paraphrased)."

Also, referring to the imagery of Daniel again, Israel as a decendant of Babylon makes sense to some degree. If you look at the empires that are referred to in the imagery of the statue, the common theme that all of them have is that they rule over Jerusalem: first Babylon, then Persia, then Greece, and finally Rome. Since then who has taken rule over Jerusalem? The Ottomans took it from Rome, the British took it from the Ottomans, and the Israelis have taken it from the British-- at least partially. Some of it still belongs to Jordan, no? Seven heads: Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Brits, and Israelis? Take it back one step further and you get Israelis at the beginning and the end of the list. According to the Revelation there is an eighth king that is one of the seven; Israel fits this description, kind of like in the same way that a political leader can fall from power and then return to power after a term.

Of course, these are just thoughts that I've had. I've done a great deal of struggling with these two books, but still am not confident in the conclusions I've drawn.

Also, I'd like to ask for forgiveness in advance for suggesting that Jerusalem could be portrayed as a harlot, and that Israel could be symbolized as a beast; nobody wants their city or country to be described in negative terms, I'm sure, so if anyone on this forum is from Jerusalem, or attaches particular importance to Jerusalem, or if there are any Israelis reading this, please accept my apologies and know that I'm only making this suggestion in the interest of scholarly discussion.

An additional significant factor is that when Babylon the Great goes down under the devastating attack of the ten horns of the symbolic wild beast, her fall is mourned by her companions in fornication, the kings of the earth, and also by the merchants and shippers who dealt with her in supplying luxurious commodities and gorgeous fineries. While these political and commercial representatives survive her desolation, notably no religious representatives are depicted as still on the scene to share in mourning her downfall. (Re 17:16, 17; 18:9-19)
 

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Re: Babylon the great

hey what happened ,. it posted twice dont know why?
 

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Re: Babylon the great

Marsh said:
If I may also point something else out with regards to the issue of the beast that was, then was not, but will come up out of the abyss to its destruction: At the time that John received his vision, Israel as a sovereign state was not. In the days of David Israel was a sovereign state. Today, Israel is a sovereign state. Therefore, Israel was, then was not, and has come again; perhaps the beast is Israel itself-- political Israel, I mean; the government, not the people. This would also explain God's warning, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her punishment (paraphrased)."

quote] this beast that was, then was not, then came up out of the abyss was the league of nations, then it came up as the united nations , and it will go off into destruction. this is the eighth king that springs from the seventh
The angel further explains to John: "And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth king, but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction." (Revelation 17:11) The symbolic scarlet-colored wild beast "springs from" the seven heads; that is, it is born from, or owes its existence to, those heads of the original "wild beast . . . out of the sea," of which the scarlet-colored wild beast is an image. In what way? Well, in 1919 the Anglo-American power was the ascendant head. The previous six heads had fallen, and the position of dominant world power had passed to this dual head and was now centered in it. This seventh head, as the current representative of the line of world powers, was the moving force in establishing the League of Nations and is still the major promoter and financial support of the United Nations. Thus, in symbol, the scarlet-colored wild beast—the eighth king—"springs from" the original seven heads. Viewed in this way, the statement that it sprang from the seven harmonizes well with the earlier revelation that the wild beast with two horns like a lamb (the Anglo-American World Power, the seventh head of that original wild beast) urged the making of the image and gave it life.—Revelation 13:1, 11, 14, 15.
 

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Re: Babylon the great

lunamoth said:
Hi Marsh, good to see you back. :)
lunamoth

Thank you, Lunamoth; it's nice to be back.

Mee, your take on this prophecy and its connection to the League of Nations/United Nations is interesting. But by my reading I'm under the impression that the was/is not/will be again part of it applies to the time in which it was revealed (c.80ad). Otherwise, wouldn't the translation have been "will be, then won't be, then will be again"? Now, I'm aware that Greek has a different grammar than English, and the tenses may differ as well. Any thoughts?
 

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Re: Babylon the great

Marsh said:
So if John saw a city that already existed at his time, and that he knew, then why couldn't that city be Jerusalem?

When considering the woman, Babylon, the beast, the image of the beast, and the dragon, all mentioned in The Revelation, we have to consider how they are inter-related.

The woman was a city which has the ability to "reign over the kings of the earth" (17:18). Revelation also says the woman has influence over peoples, multitudes, nations and languages (17:15). It seems we are looking at a universal organisation of some kind.

The woman is guilty of fornication. Given Paul's teaching on the Church as the "chaste virgin", it seems that this represents the spiritual opposite. Besides political and economic power, the woman/Babylon snares the "souls of men" and is "drunken with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus".

The woman/city is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and decked with gold and precious stones, and sits on seven hills.

The woman/city is riding a "beast" which we see in Rev 13 is a powerful man who receives worship ... a form of reverence due only to God.

The beast, we are told has a number (666) - most likely a number that identifies the position he holds, not a personal name.

There are other aspects to consider, but all of the descriptions must fit together just like a jigsaw puzzle.

For the prophet, things are present tense because he is seeing them in the form of a vision ... consider the description of the new heaven and the new earth given in Rev 17.
 

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Re: Babylon the great

Marsh said:
Thank you, Lunamoth; it's nice to be back.

Mee, your take on this prophecy and its connection to the League of Nations/United Nations is interesting. But by my reading I'm under the impression that the was/is not/will be again part of it applies to the time in which it was revealed (c.80ad). Otherwise, wouldn't the translation have been "will be, then won't be, then will be again"? Now, I'm aware that Greek has a different grammar than English, and the tenses may differ as well. Any thoughts?
the book of revelation is for our day, and it is being uncovered or revealed in the time of the end ,or the last days of this system of things, the Lords day started in 1914 when Jesus was made king of the heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 7;13-14 and many things in the book of revelation have been happening since that time , the league of nations was brought to life in 1920 by the 2 horned wild beast(Anglo-American dual power) it was invisioned to wipe out the threat of war forever . then it was resurrected after the 2nd world war as the united nations, so it was , then it was not, then it was.
The Bible tells of seven great world powers—mighty empires that have succeeded one another down through thousands of years of world history. we are living in the time of the last of them—the Anglo-American World Power of our day.—Revelation 17:9, 10.
the League’s deathblow came on September 1, 1939, with the outbreak of World War II
peace could not come through such human efforts. only Gods heavenly kingdom goverment can bring true peace ,and if religious leaders claim that it is Gods way to peace and security that is blasphemy, because only Gods kingdom can do that .
The League of Nations accomplished a great deal in social fields. However, its real goal, as expressed in its official "Covenant of the League of Nations," was "to promote international cooperation and to achieve international peace and security." In this it failed.
Regarding this eighth king, the inspired prophecy said: "The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction."—Revelation 17:8.
As the prophecy had stated, this eighth king "was" from 1920 until 1939. It ‘was not’ from 1939 until World War II ended in 1945. Then it ascended "out of the abyss," reactivated as the League’s successor, the United Nations.
 

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Re: Babylon the great

kenod said:
i

The woman/city is riding a "beast" which we see in Rev 13 is a powerful man who receives worship ... a form of reverence due only to God.

h.
she is riding a scarlet -colored wild beast,
Notice that the scarlet-colored wild beast "is also itself an eighth king." so, the United Nations today is designed to look like a world government. and many give it reverance, this is idolatry it is in a place it should not be , it is not Gods way to peace on the earth, the
Messianic Kingdom of God had been established in the heavens in 1914, and this is what we should look to for peace on earth not a manmade organization, many are misled to give their worship to the counterfiet thing , religious leaders are wrong to do this as it is blasphemy. but that is what they have done even claiming that it is what God has set up on the earth . when it is not that at all . that is why the harlot is riding this beast, the harlot is the world empire of false religion. but soon that beast will turn on this harlot .

 

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Re: Babylon the great

mee said:
she is riding a scarlet -colored wild beast,
Notice that the scarlet-colored wild beast "is also itself an eighth king." so, the United Nations today is designed to look like a world government. and many give it reverance, this is idolatry it is in a place it should not be , it is not Gods way to peace on the earth, the
Messianic Kingdom of God had been established in the heavens in 1914, and this is what we should look to for peace on earth not a manmade organization, many are misled to give their worship to the counterfiet thing , religious leaders are wrong to do this as it is blasphemy. but that is what they have done even claiming that it is what God has set up on the earth . when it is not that at all . that is why the harlot is riding this beast, the harlot is the world empire of false religion. but soon that beast will turn on this harlot .


Hmmm, The United Nations (based in New York city, which does not sit on seven hills), is a toothless Glee club. Rome does sit on seven hills but no organisation controls everything. The only other city I am aware of that sits on seven hills is Seattle (and that may not be for long if Mt Rainer decides to wake up).
 

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Re: Babylon the great

mee said:
she is riding a scarlet -colored wild beast,
Notice that the scarlet-colored wild beast "is also itself an eighth king".


In giving my understanding of The Revelation, I need to comment on the Pope and the Vatican. This does not mean that I am saying that the Pope is a bad man (the last one was a notably good man) or that the people in the RC Church are any worse than those in other churches. I know quite well that there are many, many genuine Christians in the RC church.

The distinction is between the organised political church (both Catholic and Protestant - the whore was a "mother of harlots") and the one true universal Church made up of real Christian believers out of every denomination.

Rev 17:10-11 (KJV)
And there are seven kings:
five are fallen,
and one is, and the other is not yet come;
and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not,
even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17:10-11 (NIV)
They are also seven kings.
Five have fallen,
one is, the other has not yet come;
but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.
The beast who once was, and now is not,
is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven
and is going to his destruction.
These verses identify the position of the beast - it is a position identified by the men who have been his predecessors.


Julius Caesar was the first sole ruler of the Roman Empire. He was succeeded by five more emperors from his own house: Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero. After Nero came Galba who only ruled for 7 months (“a short space”).

If five are fallen, then the “one is” must refer to Nero. We know that Nero reigned from AD 54-68, and yet John probably wrote The Revelation later, about AD96-100. If we impose a literal time scale it does not work - a resolution of this difficulty is to understand that John is not writing a chronological history, but recording visions with amplification from an angel (Rev 1:1) - time and sequence are as they appear to him in the visions.

The first 7 rulers of the Roman Empire identify the role of the beast. We are told the beast was, is not, yet is … this was fulfilled when imperial Rome gave way to papal Rome, as both a temporal and spiritual power.

As the supreme head of the Roman Catholic Church, the Pope’s position is "of the seven", and will continue until the time of the end (perdition, destruction).

It is interesting to note that the Pope has retained the most prestigious religious title adopted by Julius Caesar: Pontifex Maximus (Supreme Pontiff). The Pope is also called “Holy Father”. There is only one Holy Father (John 17:11), so it must be wrong to apply it to a man. Could this be one of the names of blasphemy (Rev 13:1)? And one of his titles does give the number equivalent 666.

It is important to identify the beast and Babylon correctly because we are told to "Come out of her". I believe we are being told to come out of mere religious observance into an experience where we are personally born of the Spirit of God, without which we cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5).
 

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Re: Babylon the great

Immovable object against an irresistable force...:eek:
 

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Re: Babylon the great

Quahom1 said:
Hmmm, The United Nations (based in New York city, which does not sit on seven hills), is a toothless Glee club. Rome does sit on seven hills but no organisation controls everything. The only other city I am aware of that sits on seven hills is Seattle (and that may not be for long if Mt Rainer decides to wake up).

It was often on hills that the Israelites, in imitation of the Canaanites, carried on idolatrous worship, remember the book of revelation is in signs and symbols,
In Biblical symbolism mountains can represent kingdoms or ruling governments. (Da 2:35, 44, 45; compare Isa 41:15; Re 17:9-11, 18.)
The prophecy of Isaiah 2:2, 3 and that of Micah 4:1, 2 pointed to the time when "the mountain of the house of Jehovah" would "become firmly established above the top of the mountains" and be "lifted up above the hills," with people of many nations streaming to it. The fact that "the mountain of the house of Jehovah" was to be above mountains and hills would point to the exalted position of true worship, for mountains and hills in ancient times served as sites for idolatrous worship and for sanctuaries of false gods.—De 12:2; Jer 3:6; Eze 18:6, 11, 15; Ho 4:13............ i find that interesting because to claim that the united nations is the only way to peace , and not to look to the messianic kingdom of God , Would be idolatry,
 

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Re: Babylon the great

kenod said:
Rev 17:10-11 (KJV)
And there are seven kings:
five are fallen,
and one is, and the other is not yet come;
and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not,
even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and goeth into perdition.



Rev 17:10-11 (NIV)​

They are also seven kings.
Five have fallen,
one is, the other has not yet come;
but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.
The beast who once was, and now is not,
is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven
and is going to his destruction.



It is important to identify the beast and Babylon correctly because we are told to "Come out of her". I believe we are being told to come out of mere religious observance into an experience where we are personally born of the Spirit of God, without which we cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5).

"There are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived."—Revelation 17:10.​
What five world powers had already come and gone by John’s day? Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. Which one still existed? Rome. And which power had "not yet arrived"? The Anglo-American World Power of our day. These are the world powers with which God’s people, ancient and modern, have been primarily concerned.
An especially important fact is this: There was to be a succession of only seven such world powers! A contemporaneous eighth power, which would include remnants of the seven, was foretold to exist for a short time during the days of the seventh. (Revelation 17:10, 11) This means that we are living during the time of the last of the great world powers ruled by man. There will be no more!
Soon now, the world powers will have had their day. Daniel prophesied that these human systems will be crushed and ‘carried away by the wind.’ (Daniel 2:35) What will replace them? Something far better! Daniel reports: "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. . . . It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite," forever. (Daniel 2:44) So nothing less than God’s Kingdom will replace these human world powers. What a magnificent improvement in world rulership! and yes, Gods people are being told to get out of Babylon the great(the world empire of false religion) because she is on her way out . and it will be because God himself wants that to happen.
 

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Re: Babylon the great

mee said:

"There are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived."—Revelation 17:10.​
What five world powers had already come and gone by John’s day? Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. Which one still existed? Rome. And which power had "not yet arrived"? The Anglo-American World Power of our day.

It seems to me that Daniel only speaks of four empires.


Daniel 2:32
This image's head was of fine gold,
his breast and his arms of silver,
his belly and his thighs of brass,
His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

We are told that the gold represented Babylon, so the the silver represented the Medo-Persians, the brass the Greeks, and the iron was Rome. The iron continues until the end, mixed with “clay” … thus it is in a diluted and different form among the people. (Clay represents people. Dan 2:43).

There is a continuous uninterrupted flow from one empire to the other. Your understanding places at least a 1000 year gap between the legs and the feet.

I see the seven kings of Rev 17 as individual rulers because they foreshadow the ‘beast’ who is also a person.

Even though we see things very differently, I appreciate the way you do not use personal putdown in your posts … a good example for us all!
 
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