Good Men Hate God

[Terrence]

Yeah, I know that. I don't see how it is even possible to commit idolatry unless you make something and purposefully worship it as something that is not God. Whether you worship Him as some loving, merciful guy or the Godfather or even a non-anthropomorphic principle should not matter.

Unless your god mirrors that of the Bible, it is idolatry. God is a jealous God and He knows that He is infinitely better than all other joys and pleasures. He created people for His Glory and His glory is wrapped up in your fullness of Joy. Therefore, when you are fully Satisfied in God, God is fully Glorfied in you and He gets the Glory and you the joy - best of both possible worlds. To turn away from God who is infinitely better than everything else and give your love and effection to anything else, is sin and is a slap in the face of the God who created you to exprience His infinite worth.

 

[Faithfulservant]

So we agree, that would be us learning from our elder brother and wayshower and both being one of the continually only begottens.

Since I can't translate Hebrew, don't intimately know the history and the derivations of all the words, I do believe that Jews that have been raised in the language and continue to study scriptures can sometimes assist me in regards to books that their people wrote.

Uhh no.. sorry. Thats pretty good manuevering of what I said. .. I have found that satan is pretty adept at taking the bible out of context...

You are also making my argument for me.. You wont take the time to learn Hebrew so you ask someone else for their translation/interpretation ... How much of the other beliefs that you have are the same way? Their people didnt write the books.. The Holy Spirit of God wrote the books.. they just penned the words given to them.

 

[Faithfulservant]

!!!!! How often does anyone DECIDE they are going to go worship some guy because hes NICE... Do you have any idea how insulting you are mos? My God doesnt need you to worship HIM. You worship HIM because HE is worthy of it... period. Do you know what God does to people that continue to reject Him when He calls??? He quits trying... Now thats utterly terrifying. want to talk about fear??? You cannot come to God unless HE calls you...its impossible.

Thank you God that you are so merciful and that your grace abounds.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Uhh no.. sorry. Thats pretty good manuevering of what I said. .. I have found that satan is pretty adept at taking the bible out of context...

You are also making my argument for me.. You wont take the time to learn Hebrew so you ask someone else for their translation/interpretation ... How much of the other beliefs that you have are the same way? Their people didnt write the books.. The Holy Spirit of God wrote the books.. they just penned the words given to them.

That's why most Christians don't read the Bible- especially the OT: It's so confusing because what it says isn't what it means, so it's better to have the preacher just tell you what it means.

Everyone is reliant on commentary. Everyone.

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

That's why most Christians don't read the Bible- especially the OT: It's so confusing because what it says isn't what it means, so it's better to have the preacher just tell you what it means.

Everyone is reliant on commentary. Everyone.

Chris

If that were so, there would be no CR, and you and I would not be here to argue...Care to reconsider?

 

[Faithfulservant]

That's why most Christians don't read the Bible- especially the OT: It's so confusing because what it says isn't what it means, so it's better to have the preacher just tell you what it means.

Everyone is reliant on commentary. Everyone.

Chris

China your doing it again.. just straight up tell me that you dont agree..

 

[Quahom1]

Whew,,,saved by the "belle".

 

[moseslmpg]

!!!!! How often does anyone DECIDE they are going to go worship some guy because hes NICE... Do you have any idea how insulting you are mos? My God doesnt need you to worship HIM. You worship HIM because HE is worthy of it... period. Do you know what God does to people that continue to reject Him when He calls??? He quits trying... Now thats utterly terrifying. want to talk about fear??? You cannot come to God unless HE calls you...its impossible.

I'm not anymore insulting than anyone else, in fact when I am here I make it a point to be as un-insulting as possible. It's nice that your God doesn't need you to worship Him, so don't. (Btw, I personally do not think that a being that cannot even control its base emotions is worthy of worship and I don't see why everyone else does.) However, I wasn't talking about worshipping your God based on his characteristics I was talking about what the difference would be between focusing on his separate aspects. Just because someone worships God as a loving, merciful person does not mean they are idolaters.

Since I was not talking about that other stuff I will leave your opinions to themselves.

 

[Quahom1]

I'm not anymore insulting than anyone else, in fact when I am here I make it a point to be as un-insulting as possible. It's nice that your God doesn't need you to worship Him, so don't. (Btw, I personally do not think that a being that cannot even control its base emotions is worthy of worship and I don't see why everyone else does.) However, I wasn't talking about worshipping your God based on his characteristics I was talking about what the difference would be between focusing on his separate aspects. Just because someone worships God as a loving, merciful person does not mean they are idolaters.

Since I was not talking about that other stuff I will leave your opinions to themselves.

Moderator hat ON

Wow. That was outright rude. (also out of control). We understand that people have differing opinions, and as such one should be tolerant of the differences. However, this is the Christianity forum. We try to be amiable, to questions and thoughts outside the Christian rhealm. But there are exceptions. This seems to be one of them. Attacks are not allowed. The COC is clear on this: http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/code-of-conduct.php

If you find this cannot be adhered to, or you think I, am out of line, you can notify I, Brian who is the owner/administrator of this Forum, here: mailto:brian@comparative-religion.com

Moderator hat OFF

play nice folks...please.

v/r

Joshua

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

China your doing it again.. just straight up tell me that you dont agree..

O.K., I don't agree. I find the notion that the authors of the OT had no idea what they were writing, and that the Jews preserved their writings for a couple thousand years even though they were completely nonsensical absolutely rediculous.

Chris

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower
That's why most Christians don't read the Bible- especially the OT: It's so confusing because what it says isn't what it means, so it's better to have the preacher just tell you what it means.

Everyone is reliant on commentary. Everyone.

Chris

If that were so, there would be no CR, and you and I would not be here to argue...Care to reconsider?

Joshua,

If anyone here can tell me honestly that they developed their theological ideas solely from reading the Bible, and without any commentary or outside input I'll publicly eat crow.

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by China Cat Sunflower
That's why most Christians don't read the Bible- especially the OT: It's so confusing because what it says isn't what it means, so it's better to have the preacher just tell you what it means.

Everyone is reliant on commentary. Everyone.

Chris




Joshua,

If anyone here can tell me honestly that they developed their theological ideas solely from reading the Bible, and without any commentary or outside input I'll publicly eat crow.

Chris

Um, you're serious? I learned about the "BIBLE" and the truth, from some guy named Gideon (never met him, but he always left one of his bibles in the hotel room I had to stay in, and I've stayed in many the past 30 years). As pointed out before my friend, there is a difference between a Catholic, and a Catholic Christian. I am the latter.

when I learned about God in all His glory, it was in english in a hotel room, not in Latin in a cathedral.

need a knife, fork or spoon?

 

[lunamoth]

If anyone here can tell me honestly that they developed their theological ideas solely from reading the Bible, and without any commentary or outside input I'll publicly eat crow.

Chris

Ahh, now I am starting to see where you were going in your post to me in the other thread. I totally agree with you Chris! It's impossible to read the Bible in a vacuum and you're right--we all rely upon commentary for our understanding. This includes those who think that they are reading the Bible on their own and literal-factually. It's still an interpretation and most of the time people do not even realize that it is most often not their own interepretation. It's impossible to separate our interpretations from our cultural views.

But, there's nothing wrong with that. The Bible did not drop out of heaven. It is a community book.

2 c,
luna

 

[Faithfulservant]

O.K., I don't agree. I find the notion that the authors of the OT had no idea what they were writing, and that the Jews preserved their writings for a couple thousand years even though they were completely nonsensical absolutely rediculous.

Chris

Didnt that feel good? Just to say what you feel.. I appreciate it anyways. We dont have to agree with each other I wont be able to change your view and likewise... I hope that we can both say our piece without drawing blood.

Thanks Chris

 

[Quahom1]

Ahh, now I am starting to see where you were going in your post to me in the other thread. I totally agree with you Chris! It's impossible to read the Bible in a vacuum and you're right--we all rely upon commentary for our understanding. This includes those who think that they are reading the Bible on their own and literal-factually. It's still an interpretation and most of the time people do not even realize that it is most often not their own interepretation. It's impossible to separate our interpretations from our cultural views.

But, there's nothing wrong with that. The Bible did not drop out of heaven. It is a community book.

2 c,
luna

oops, she's right...I'm crawling into my hole now Chris.

 

[juantoo3]

If anyone here can tell me honestly that they developed their theological ideas solely from reading the Bible, and without any commentary or outside input I'll publicly eat crow.

I have no desire to see you eat crow, and I think I see what you are getting at. I certainly cannot claim I had no formal indoctrination as a kid (which I am actually grateful for), yet what I can say is that when I came of age to pursue this on my own, I did it largely of my own volition. Even what "teachers" I have had, I have always found questions that they were uncomfortable with. In short, I follow no one completely, and base my understanding predominantly on my own personal studies, deliberately laying aside most formal traditions. In fairness, there is one scholar I have found that seems to have reached many of the same conclusions I did, who by virtue of formal study in linguistics (a pupil of Ginsberg, Mee), experience and time was able to delve even further than I had. His teaching has been a great benefit to me. Even so, there are a couple of things I don't quite see eye to eye about even with him. BTW, while this scholar is quite conservative, he is most likely considered non-mainstream. Fine by me, I'll take the book over convention any day...

 

[Prober]

That's why most Christians don't read the Bible- especially the OT: It's so confusing because what it says isn't what it means, so it's better to have the preacher just tell you what it means.

Everyone is reliant on commentary. Everyone.

Chris

One can pray for guidance, then read the Bible and let the Holy Spirit provide the commentary.

 

[lunamoth]

I wonder though how many people would come up with the idea of the rapture and tribulation ala Hayes on their own if they were not previously introduced to that idea.

Oh, and just to even it out, how many would come up with the doctrine of the Trinity all on their own, just reading the Bible?

luna

 

[wil]

.. I have found that satan is pretty adept at taking the bible out of context... .. You wont take the time to learn Hebrew so you ask someone else for their translation/interpretation ...

ouch

It appears to me that all discussion is based largely on previous discussion, and sermons, and commentary...it all builds.

China has a point, but only to a point. First there existed the stories, the oral traditions explaining the unexplainable, eventually folks wrote it down. Some of the stories were combined (the elohists and yahwists) and rewritten (deuteronomists) and edited...and then a group got together and combined their favorite stories and poems and history into a book...and called it good.

Since then the commentaries and sermons started all utilizing the same book, until various interpretations and translations existed.

Yes some of us do learn Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic or Coptic or Sanskrit or... so we can delve deeper...but all of us have to rely on others for some interpretation and commentary as we cannot in one lifetime learn it all...or even think for certain that the hebrew words today mean the same as they did three or four thousand years ago...

~screwtape

 

[lunamoth]

Yes wil, I agree. I comes down to a matter of who do you trust.

luna