Word of God

libertylover76 said:
Because it's unbelivable.
Click to expand...

I'll add a brief thought here: Belief is trust so the question becomes why might people choose to trust, or not to trust, God or the Bible?

There is a faith in God in Christianity that is not based upon a literal-factual interpretation of the Bible. Not to say that the Bible does not describe some events that are historically true, but like all scripture and as Dondi has pointed out the focus is on the the Word points to.

2 c,

luna
 
Thomas,

You are correct in that if I have never experienced something, then that does not mean that it does not happen. I should have said something more along the lines of:

Personal experience is fine, if all you are going to say is that you have had a personal experience. No matter how moving it has been for you, it cannot be the basis of an objective claim, such as, "God exists." Since many of those who believe in god/gods claim the foundation of their belief is a personal experience with god/gods, and I have never had such an experience, I cannot rely on what they say as evidence of the existence of god/gods. I have also come to the conclusion, when comparing religious personal experiences with other personal experiences that people report, that the primary purpose of religion is to explain feelings that people have and to give them comfort in times of emotional turmoil.
Click to expand...

I have to apologize for responding to streetbob2006's post about the structure of the Bible with the bullet points. Focussing on those particular issues generally results in people talking past each other because of different understandings of science, history, predictions, consistency, etc.

If you want to have an in-depth discussion about the structure of the Bible as a book, I'm all for it. But we'd need to be sure to develop common understanding of the framework in which we will be conducting the discussion.

My response to this statement

How about concluding that if God exists, you have had no experience of Him?
Click to expand...

is: If God exists, why have I had no experience of Him?
 
libertylover76 said:
Because it's unbelivable.
Click to expand...


What concept of God is unbelievable, libertylover? That God couldn't have possibly created all we know? Hell, we all create with our minds. First a concept, then a visual, then it manifests through action, right? Is it so hard to believe that it is possible, or do you simply 'choose' not to believe?

We are all creators, and the logic is there, imo.


Much Love,


btw, what kind of 'experience' are you looking for when it comes to God?
 
Nearly everything that people say about god/gods is unbelievable. The idea that God created anything at all is unbelievable.

Cage talks about minds being creative. That they are. Every creative mind resides in a body. Does God have a body? Every body has evolved from an earlier life form (I wrote that very carefully). Did God evolve from an earlier life form?

If the claim is that God existed prior to the existence of all that is created, then the question is begged....


btw, what kind of 'experience' are you looking for when it comes to God?
Click to expand...

Fair question.

I owe it to my integrity, my intelligence, and my commitments to the people around me to not claim belief in something without either rational proof, or a personal experience that would leave me with no doubt that I was affected by something outside of the natural world. I would need something as profoundly earth-moving as a "road to Damascus"-style revelation.
 
libertylover76 said:
Nearly everything that people say about god/gods is unbelievable. The idea that God created anything at all is unbelievable.
Click to expand...
Depends on what your understanding of G-d is.
liberylover76 said:
Does God have a body? Every body has evolved from an earlier life form (I wrote that very carefully). Did God evolve from an earlier life form?
Click to expand...
Not in my book. How about considering 'G-d is all there is.' If that were your paradigm how does that fit into your understanding of creation?
 
Depends on what your understading of G-d is.
Click to expand...

What does that mean, anyway?

If 'G-d is all there is' then this whole endeavor is even more futile than spid3rboy claims existentialism is.

If we are nothing more than blips in God's psyche, then why worry about anything? Why care at all? The next neuron will fire, and God will have another thought, and off we go into nonexistence.

Another response is this: If 'G-d is all there is', then why bother with God? We've already got all there is. Let's just say, "all there is, is" and dispense with the bloodshed, the tyranny, and the despair that abuse of belief in God leads to.
 
libertylover76 said:
What does that mean, anyway?

If 'G-d is all there is' then this whole endeavor is even more futile than spid3rboy claims existentialism is.
Click to expand...
why?
LL76 said:
If we are nothing more than blips in God's psyche, then why worry about anything? Why care at all? The next neuron will fire, and God will have another thought, and off we go into nonexistence.
Click to expand...
why if every thought of yours is part of G-d thought? Does G-d have a thought without yours?
LL76 said:
Another response is this: If 'G-d is all there is', then why bother with God? We've already got all there is. Let's just say, "all there is, is" and dispense with the bloodshed, the tyranny, and the despair that abuse of belief in God leads to.
Click to expand...
ego, lack of G-d leads to bloodshed, tyranny, despair and abuse. Power, control, these are traits that man holds over man earthly concepts. Man abuses others beliefs to gain power as I see it.
 
libertylover76 said:
Nearly everything that people say about god/gods is unbelievable. The idea that God created anything at all is unbelievable.

Cage talks about minds being creative. That they are. Every creative mind resides in a body. Does God have a body? Every body has evolved from an earlier life form (I wrote that very carefully). Did God evolve from an earlier life form?

If the claim is that God existed prior to the existence of all that is created, then the question is begged.
Click to expand...

Everything is made up of electrical currents...we are energy, right? We perceive reality through our senses, and all is dependent upon our perceptions. We in effect create the reality we know, see, feel, hear, touch, smell. They are mere chemical reactions to stimuli, and that stimuli is energy.

I assume that there is a fair ammount of energy in consciousness, correct? God is all of existence, the universal consciousness, the creative/destructive forces of our universe, and all the energy we percieve as material matter. I am certain God exists w/o beginning, or end. The concept of time is an illusion, God always was, and will always be, imo. God just is, and we will never understand him completely...

Why do we [mankind] create in the material, or even mental? Because we are creators like God, made in his image, and we 'love' to create new things. [It satisfies] Otherwise, we would never create at all. Love, and creation is the driving force behind the mind of God, imo. I think we are mere products of Gods mind, created out of his Love, out of his entire being, yet we are somewhat seperate from God. Our independence and free will allows us to create our own realities, and it allows us to make choices in life. God is life, God is Love, and God is our consciousness, imo. My views differ greatly from other more mainstrean Christians, but I believe in the life giving power of Gods Love.

I think when we die, we simply return to a pure consciousness state, w/o the ego of mind [brain]. That state is the true soul of man, and we determine that state through what our soul embraces in this life, imo...

Love = Life



Much Love,
 
I owe it to my integrity, my intelligence, and my commitments to the people around me to not claim belief in something without either rational proof, or a personal experience that would leave me with no doubt that I was affected by something outside of the natural world. I would need something as profoundly earth-moving as a "road to Damascus"-style revelation.

Interesting. Of course, there are those of impeccable integrity, unquestioned intelligence, commitment and rationality who have found faith, without the requirement of being struck blind ... so I would say you owe it to yourself to lighten up, and don't take yourself too seriously ... give yourself a chance ...

On another tack - have you considered the 'Five Proofs' of Aquinas? They derive from Aristotle, and still stand, so their track record re integrity, intelligence and rationality is pretty well bullet-proof ...

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
Interesting. Of course, there are those of impeccable integrity, unquestioned intelligence, commitment and rationality who have found faith, without the requirement of being struck blind ... so I would say you owe it to yourself to lighten up, and don't take yourself too seriously ... give yourself a chance ...

On another tack - have you considered the 'Five Proofs' of Aquinas? They derive from Aristotle, and still stand, so their track record re integrity, intelligence and rationality is pretty well bullet-proof ...
Click to expand...
Eh, you're probably wasting your breath on another fundamentalist zealot...
 
Gone for 24 hrs and this place blew up! I would like to respond to some previous comments (way back) but want to tackle this first.

What is Christianity and what central focal point of it all?

Its says in the bible that there will be a day of judgement when all of us will be judged according to GOds moral law. (10 commandments) Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? looked upon someone who is not your spouse with lust? (adultery) Have you ever taken the Lords name who gave you life and breath in vain? (blasphemy) Coveted something that was not yours? Be honest and think about it. We all have including me. God is who is a good cannot overlook the wrong done and the crime must be punished. He is not corrupt but must adminster justice and the punishment is Hell. Just like an earthly judge cannot let a child rapist go without punishment. I am guilty of sin and deserve death and hell but it says in the bible that GOd wants none to perish. This is the amazing part....God himself comes to earth and dies a horrible gruesome death for our sin. He takes the wrath we deserve all the while we were still rebeling against him! This is what love is. We cannot even begin to comprehend how God can humble himself to his own creation and endure it with such humilty being spit on and whipped and treated like a criminal so we could enter his kingdom. We are free and forgiven of all the times we spit in his face and took his name in vain etc. THe result of sin is death and the Lord Jesus took upon himself so those who repent and put their faith in him shall have ever lasting life! All other belief systems say you can earn enlighment or heaven or whatever, but not Jesus. He says " I am the way the truth and the life and no one shall enter my kingdom but through me.
It is way more then following the teachings of Christ or experiencing GOd in some subjective way....it is the most beautiful thing one can imagine...it is the forgivness of sin. We can not earn heaven because we are "good" people. We all have sinned and punishment must be admistered. That is why the Jews sacrificed animals in the OLd Testament (foreshadow of CHrist)..it was for sin...but CHrist comes along and provides the perfect sacrfice. The perfect Lamb of God. This is amazing!
 
17th Angel said:
Benny Hill :D... Heh awesome...

LOL

"Check all other books that claim to be Holy and they are either written by one guy (easy to make up something) or they contridict one another. NOne of them predict the future." - Streetbob.

It's easy for one person to make something up? But not easy for a group of people to make something up? That logic tickles me. Just because the bible "doesn't contridict" itself makes it in no way or form the truth.... I have a few books of "barny the owl" and all of them are in harmony and don't contradict each other!!"£$!" Maybe these are the word of a god!!! The only thing that is contridicting in christianity is... christians. :) Sure your book seems to have a steady flow but that means nothing really.

"Not many other religons span back as far Historically as CHristianity does. (in judaism) It was not just started in 600 AD were there was nothing before it" - Streetbob.

Christianity is the second YOUNGEST mainsteam religion.... :)
Click to expand...


Hey Angel, Christianity stems from Judaism. The Jews were waiting for a messiah in the Old Testament and later Christ came and some Jews believed he was the Messiah. This is were CHristianity stems off meaning it goes back farther then most religions through Judaism.

BArny the Owl was not written by more then 40 different authors who lived over a period of 1500 years seperated by 3 different continents and languages. The point being that the consistency is pretty amazing considering the circumstances.
 
Moderator Post.....

Hi All,

Let's remember that we are all here for interesting discussion and debate. Please let's remain respectful, keep on topic and refrain from personal comments.

Carry on. :)


lunamoth
 
libertylover76 said:
is: If God exists, why have I had no experience of Him?
Click to expand...

I remember the first time I saw the great pyramid a Ghiza; I was going right past it in a minibus. When I was close up I looked out the window and saw something but I had no idea what I was looking at. It really is tremendously huge. When we'd travelled on I looked back and realised what I'd missed.
-VC
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top