Adam to Jesus 4000 years?

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pattimax said:
I have studied enough about eastern religions to know that most of them in the long run are horrid. And total garbage.
Bye!
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See now that is truly a shame. I don't think Taoists or Hindis or Buddhists think of Christians in that light. Do you really think it is Christian to simply denigrate and disregard the believes of others in such a manner. The do unto others concept comes to mind, would you think it acceptable for others to say the same about our belief system?
 
wil said:
got thru it one and a half times...

and yeah and I get into it all...issues with revelation (my biggest pet peeve is why do people call it revelations?)
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one and half times.. if you read it slowly for half to an hour a day you'd probably get through it 5 times a year..
 
Faithfulservant said:
one and half times.. if you read it slowly for half to an hour a day you'd probably get through it 5 times a year..
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I call and raise.

I did do it in one year once and I believe it took more than 1/2 hour a day. Today I never race, I contemplate, compare 4-6 different versions, look up commentary and spend time in the dictionary and on the net. But if you think you can get through it 5 times a year, my hats off to ya, and I'll bet you can't do it in one hour a day 'reading slowly'...$100 to your favorite charity if you do it prior to Christmas 2007!
 
wil said:
I call and raise.

I did do it in one year once and I believe it took more than 1/2 hour a day. Today I never race, I contemplate, compare 4-6 different versions, look up commentary and spend time in the dictionary and on the net. But if you think you can get through it 5 times a year, my hats off to ya, and I'll bet you can't do it in one hour a day 'reading slowly'...$100 to your favorite charity if you do it prior to Christmas 2007!
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I always take issue with people that make a big deal about having read the bible all the way through once or as you say one and half times.. Try this wil.. try starting in Genesis and just read it dont study it dont read comparisons just read it.. read it as a whole story and not bits and pieces..i read it all the way through when I first born again twice in 3 months.. Im not bragging im just totally against the whole concept of a bible-in-a-year... turn off the stupid television for that 2 hours a night and read the bible.. Im not making a law of it.. but if you really want to know what God has to say.. read it from Genesis to Revelation like you would any novel..

You know how people buy a CD and listen to it over and over till they know it by heart and then they start learning about the singer and the songwriter an you like them so much you buy more of their stuff... its the same concept.. the more you read it the more you absorb it the more it sits in your brain.. we humans need repitition to learn... :)

Im not taking the bet and Im not making a law of it for myself.. I do it because I want to learn about my God.. I want to see Jesus from the beginning through to the end..
 
In addition.. .I would like to add that if one reads the bible as a whole they would never accept Calvinism.. they would see a loving compassionate God that has mercy on ALL His creation..
 
Election has a way of bring up the pride in people and showing them that they are more man-centered than God-centered. "If you are God-centered because you believe God to be Man-Centered, then you are man-centered. But if you want to get on board for God's God-Centeredness, then God is God." - John Piper. God has Alway been sovereignly electing His, from OT to NT. He has chosen Israel and a few Gentiles in the OT and the rest were either killed by God's people or killed by God himself. The whole Bible is so clear on God's Sovereignity, but we still assume God is all for man as if we deserve it. God does love us - that much is certain - but not more than Himself. As a brother in the faith (who's probably really wrong to you right now), I would ask that you meet election with humility. Its hard going down, but onces its down, the truth is sweet. And oh do you wonder and glory in God's choice to love wretches!!
 
you know.. I could respect that you believe in predestination and that God chooses people to go to hell... but to come into this forum where some of us are trying to represent the Lord Jesus Christ biblically.. and share the gospel of our Lord with folks that perhaps dont know.. or are seeking.. but you come in here and start telling these same people that God chooses people to go to hell.... No way.. in the holy name of the Lord Jesus Christ I rebuke that teaching and set it at His feet..

if you had the righteousness of Christ in mind you would have came here with the purpose of spreading His good news instead you came to create a stumbling block for people.. romans chapter 14... read it.

Here it is folks.. the recipe for Salvation.. no artifical ingrediants added..

call on the name of Jesus.. repent of your sins with the knowledge that He died for those sins.. Tell him your sorry.,Ask Him into your heart as your Lord and Savior.. as your God.. and watch Him work..

We are saved by grace through faith.. we are saved because we believe Him we are saved because He wants us saved not a few of us but ALL of us..
 
]you know.. I could respect that you believe in predestination and that God chooses people to go to hell...


Election by predestination does not make people go to Hell, it says them from. No one who wants Jesus will go to Hell, only those that hate him.

but to come into this forum where some of us are trying to represent the Lord Jesus Christ biblically.. and share the gospel of our Lord with folks that perhaps dont know.. or are seeking..

According to scripture, NONE seek after God. Where do you get the idea that some seek Him? The gospel will suffice...Preach the word to ALL, those who have ears to hear will hear. Those who dont wont...they dont care anyway.

but you come in here and start telling these same people that God chooses people to go to hell.... No way.. in the holy name of the Lord Jesus Christ I rebuke that teaching and set it at His feet..

What if you are actually really emoitional and is falsly judging me and my motives? What if you are the one in error?
if you had the righteousness of Christ in mind you would have came here with the purpose of spreading His good news instead you came to create a stumbling block for people.. romans chapter 14... read it.

Election isnt a stumbling block. It was taught in the Bible as "elementary" things or milk. Our modern church has gotten away from biblical truths that inspire us to live hard for Christ and run the race with vigore, knowing that we who are saved are no better than anyone else, but are soley saved by grace. This truth humbles us and leads us into a better understand of ourselves and how to live. In short, American modern christanity is watered down...we need a reformation. Sorry, just being honest!

Here it is folks.. the recipe for Salvation.. no artifical ingrediants added..call on the name of Jesus.. repent of your sins with the knowledge that He died for those sins.. Tell him your sorry.,Ask Him into your heart as your Lord and Savior.. as your God.. and watch Him work.. We are saved by grace through faith.. we are saved because we believe Him we are saved because He wants us saved not a few of us but ALL of us..

Amen!!
 
Silas said:
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According to scripture, NONE seek after God. Where do you get the idea that some seek Him? The gospel will suffice...Preach the word to ALL, those who have ears to hear will hear. Those who dont wont...they dont care anyway.
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Psalm 9:10 10 And those who know Your name will put their trust in You; For You, Lord, have not forsaken those who seek You.

Psalm 69:32 The humble shall see this and be glad; And you who seek God, your hearts shall live.

Psalm 70:4 Let all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You; And let those who love Your salvation say continually, "Let God be magnified!"

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious."

Isaiah 41:17 The poor and needy seek water, but there is none, Their tongues fail for thirst. I, the Lord, will hear them; I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them.

Isaiah 45:19 have not spoken in secret, In a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, 'Seek Me in vain'; I, the Lord, speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Isaiah 51:1 Listen to Me, you who follow after righteousness, You who seek the Lord: Look to the rock from which you were hewn, And to the hole of the pit from which you were dug.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the Lord while He may be found, Call upon Him while He is near.

Isaiah 65: 1 "I was sought by those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me. I said, 'Here I am, here I am,' To a nation that was not called by My name.

Jer 29:13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

Ho 3:5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They shall fear the Lord and His goodness in the latter days.

Ho 5:15 I will return again to My place Till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

Ho 10:12 Sow for yourselves righteousness; Reap in mercy; Break up your fallow ground, For it is time to seek the Lord, Till He comes and rains righteousness on you.

Am 5:4 For thus says the Lord to the house of Israel: "Seek Me and live;

Zep 2:3 Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may be that you will be hidden In the day of the Lord's anger.

mt 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

mt 7:7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Luke 11:9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Luke 12:31 But seek the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you.

John 6:26Jesus answered them and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

acts 15:17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things.'

acts 17:27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;


 
Faithfulservant said:
Silas Im curious which scripture are you using to say that we cannot seek God?
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I didnt say man cannot seek God, just that prior to Grace, He does not. I use a lot of scrptures to show this. Psa. 14 comes to mind where God says..."The Lord looks down from heaven at the human race, to see if there is anyone who is wise and seeks God. Everyone rejects God." Also, in Romans 3, Paul reiterates when he says...There is none that seek God" (Rom 3:11). You qouted a lot of verses that says that man seeks God and I have shown some that say the opposite. Is there a contradiction? Certainly not. We have to look at things in context. And again, what I've been trying to say all along is that prior to grace and God drawing a man, no one seeks after Him and no one loves Him.

Here's man pior to Christ:

What then? Are we better off? Certainly not, for we have already charged that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin, just as it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one, there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. All have turned away, together they have become worthless; there is no one who shows kindness, not even one.” “Their throats are open graves, they deceive with their tongues, the poison of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood, ruin and misery are in their paths, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:9-18)


You see, this is all a matter of the heart. If you could just get a glimpse of how really wicked we are inherantly, you'll understand what I'm saying. Because we all look in lust, we are all adulterers. We only lack oppurtunity. Because we hate people -we ALL are murderers. If we had the oppurnity to do what our heart desiered when we hate, we'd murder. Its ONLY by God's grace we dont all do what our hearts desier. Apart from Christ, we're all liken to worst than Hilters before God. Thats a hard truth that many will not admit.
 
you're preaching to the choir.. you said you were a "good guy" I was rotten to the core..Im also forgiven so I dont look at myself as wicked because Im made clean by the blood of Christ.. Christ died for the WORLD not just for me.. I just chose to accept His gift.. I dont go around looking at the people of the world as wicked.. I look at them as being lost and dead in their sins.. They need grace and mercy which God wants to bestow on ALL of them.. not a select few.

If ever there is a contradiction in the bible we are to look to Jesus and see what He does.. So in this situation we see Jesus seeking the Father... He was a man tempted in every way we were.. He had the entire worlds sins placed on Him on the cross and the Father removed His presence from Christ and still Christ was seeking the Father... Abba Abba why hast thou forsaken me.. How could the Father cause Christ to seek Him yet withdraw His presence from Him at the same time..


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Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world."

19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation." 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me." 21 But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people."


Jesus didnt go around saying.. dude Im not giving you salvation because the Father didnt choose you... but.. now you.. You the Father said I could have so here goes..

Jesus didnt teach that there were an elect few.. he rebuked those that taught that.. the pharisees and sadducees..

Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
This should be interesting.

"Christ died for the WORLD not just for me.."

[SIZE=-1]How do you understand 1 John 2:2? "He [Christ] is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."[/SIZE]
 
Faithfulservant said:
Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world."

19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation." 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me." 21 But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people."


Jesus didnt go around saying.. dude Im not giving you salvation because the Father didnt choose you... but.. now you.. You the Father said I could have so here goes..

Jesus didnt teach that there were an elect few.. he rebuked those that taught that.. the pharisees and sadducees..

Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
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I find it difficult to believe that you've been reading anything I wrote. OK, lets take this from the start. Since we're now on the subject of limited atonment or better yet, Particular Redemption, lets stay here. Keep in mind that I affirm that all who want to be saved will be saved..."Anyone who comes to me [Jesus] I will in no way cast out." Bring all the scriptures that show that Christ died for all and I'll try to better explain my beliefs.
 
Did it ever occur that God chose the most hard headed of people, as the chosen ones. The rest of us were just chomping at the bit to get to know God?
 
Silas said:
This should be interesting.

"Christ died for the WORLD not just for me.."

[SIZE=-1]How do you understand 1 John 2:2? "He [Christ] is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."[/SIZE]
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yes but thats not what TULIP is teaching.. The Five Points of Calvinism, TULIP

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

So God creates this world and because He is kind He will only let a few be His elect..? God LOVES His creation.. This is warped.. He LOVES us.. He didnt create us for the heck of it He created us to WANT Him and NEED Him..He creates us so we could know what its like to be loved by Him... wow Id never read this before.. this is horrible. God so LOVED the WORLD that He gave His ONLY son that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish... the world means ALL.. Of course Jesus shed His blood for all those that believe in Him to cover thier sins..but He wants ALL to be saved.. Jesus wept because of what sin did to this world.. His creation.

This is making me feel queasy


Perseverance of the Saints:
You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

My only issue with this is that I agree you cannot lose your salvation but I believe you can choose to LEAVE your salvation. All the warnings Paul gave to the believers..
 
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