China Cat Sunflower
Nimrod
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Well, the fact that there was no sun, moon, or stars kinda suggests that there was no solar system doesn't it?
Chris
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Well, the fact that there was no sun, moon, or stars kinda suggests that there was no solar system doesn't it?
Chris
No offense Q, I just have a hard time keeping up, in one post you stretch the 7 days, a few later you state 1400 BCE quite clearly, a few later time means nothing...
I just can't decide which of the three posts you are standing on...hard for me to discuss when the pendelum sways so much...
Not to worry on offense...I am here to learn, expand my mind and my shoulders...
Dor
Bible Thumper
That's because there are two types of time to contend with in the Bible. Man's time and God's time apparently are very different. One is linear, while the other is extra-linear.
(2 Pet 3:8 NKJV) “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
BlaznFattyz
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i personally read that as poetic... not exactly 1:1000 but more of a beautiful explanation that man's time (limited) is not god's time (limitless), or like you said "One is linear, while the other is extra-linear.".
paul
recovering sinner
I am honestly not convinced the world is more than thousands of years old.
I will try to explain why my mind believes or doesn't believe this.
When it comes to accuratetly dating, as pretty much proven fact, we rely on remains, history, writings, and how the remains of things fit these stories and the witnesses of others.
much writings can be proved to be pretty accurate.
But this is over thousands of years.
There is also, the spiritual message and prophets that have existed, they speak a spiritual truth to our inner self.
scientists are not prophets, they are not great Holy men recieved some divine revelation.
Moses is said to have been, much of what he wrote is claimed to be true, is proved to be to many by the Christian revelation of his writngs and the prophets to follow, archeological evidence and history.
There is much debate about the age of the earth.
What has happened to the earth over time can distort the understanding of scientific tests, what is called science today is not always if ever 100% fact.
If the earth, was millions, never mind billions of years old, then it would be impossible to know anywhere near it's date of orgin by tests in this age now, i think this can be said even of thousands of years if we did not have the written testimonies of historic writings
I think without a written witness in time, we have no record of time, for there is none there giving testimony, of which i believe history has some reliance on.
What happened hundreds of years ago, is only confirmed by written records of people who lived at those times, lived through them experienced and wrote down what occured.
Without these records, we are fumbling in the dark to what actually occured, we then have to fit our own stories to what MAY have occured, we would only beable to fit our knowledge in this age to an then unknown age to us even hundreds of years ago, which would have changed less, when you go to thousands, and millions and billions, it's then much more speculation than fact.
We can say this happened to our scientific knowledge of this age, but even then our scientific knowledge is only of this age, we wouldn't know what they knew, and what really occured in times past of even a short period.
Some may say technology, or even science has develpoed over time, through history.
Do we now know more than the ancients?
We can travel to the moon, but do we know more about the planets and their cycles their spiritual significance to our lives than of ancient understanding, i think we evidently know less.
We have the internet, satelite, planes, all kinds of technology.
But they can do little as good as we in person.
I can talk to someone over the otherside of the world online, but nothing is a precious as human contact, there is a big difference and the technological one is not the greater.
We can do all sorts of things to food, but we have not progressed, but ruined food to make it unhealthy while it's natural way is the more perfect which has always been.
Technology may beable to be an aid, but i think God has given us all we need of this earth, if only we used it right, comprehended it right.
We may travel to the moon, maybe other planets, maybe create all forms of entertainment, to take us from living in the real world.
Have we developed as a world, more spiritual?
I think not, i think there were far more Holy people of times past than of present.
We may be so called more civilised in some ways, but maybe we haven't changed so much.
We still watch two grown men try knock each other out, this is called entertianment, they recieve maybe a knighthood if they've done well in this over time.
Maybe changed a little from the gladiators, but the voilence, the audience for it, and the honour given to it is still there.
Science goes on tests and theories, it relies on outcomes, but the more they progress they come to different understandings, of which they once called one understanding true, but over time and more tests and discoveries they then come up with a new more modern truth.
How can this be truth and fact?
That doesn't convince my mind, and don't think it ever can.
It doesn't make that much difference to me, what age the world is, but the evidence i seek, is how the things that are made, by the Creator, point a spiritual message of His existence and divine Love.
For i believe nothing was created in vain, for if you believe in a God as creator, and complete wisdom, then how can it be.
He created then nothing without a reason or purpose, i tend to think, nothing of this world has a solely physical purpose but also a divine message.
And the purpose of any divine message is for God to live within us, for we to live, be joined to Him as one truly in His Love.
I will try to explain why my mind believes or doesn't believe this.
When it comes to accuratetly dating, as pretty much proven fact, we rely on remains, history, writings, and how the remains of things fit these stories and the witnesses of others.
much writings can be proved to be pretty accurate.
But this is over thousands of years.
There is also, the spiritual message and prophets that have existed, they speak a spiritual truth to our inner self.
scientists are not prophets, they are not great Holy men recieved some divine revelation.
Moses is said to have been, much of what he wrote is claimed to be true, is proved to be to many by the Christian revelation of his writngs and the prophets to follow, archeological evidence and history.
There is much debate about the age of the earth.
What has happened to the earth over time can distort the understanding of scientific tests, what is called science today is not always if ever 100% fact.
If the earth, was millions, never mind billions of years old, then it would be impossible to know anywhere near it's date of orgin by tests in this age now, i think this can be said even of thousands of years if we did not have the written testimonies of historic writings
I think without a written witness in time, we have no record of time, for there is none there giving testimony, of which i believe history has some reliance on.
What happened hundreds of years ago, is only confirmed by written records of people who lived at those times, lived through them experienced and wrote down what occured.
Without these records, we are fumbling in the dark to what actually occured, we then have to fit our own stories to what MAY have occured, we would only beable to fit our knowledge in this age to an then unknown age to us even hundreds of years ago, which would have changed less, when you go to thousands, and millions and billions, it's then much more speculation than fact.
We can say this happened to our scientific knowledge of this age, but even then our scientific knowledge is only of this age, we wouldn't know what they knew, and what really occured in times past of even a short period.
Some may say technology, or even science has develpoed over time, through history.
Do we now know more than the ancients?
We can travel to the moon, but do we know more about the planets and their cycles their spiritual significance to our lives than of ancient understanding, i think we evidently know less.
We have the internet, satelite, planes, all kinds of technology.
But they can do little as good as we in person.
I can talk to someone over the otherside of the world online, but nothing is a precious as human contact, there is a big difference and the technological one is not the greater.
We can do all sorts of things to food, but we have not progressed, but ruined food to make it unhealthy while it's natural way is the more perfect which has always been.
Technology may beable to be an aid, but i think God has given us all we need of this earth, if only we used it right, comprehended it right.
We may travel to the moon, maybe other planets, maybe create all forms of entertainment, to take us from living in the real world.
Have we developed as a world, more spiritual?
I think not, i think there were far more Holy people of times past than of present.
We may be so called more civilised in some ways, but maybe we haven't changed so much.
We still watch two grown men try knock each other out, this is called entertianment, they recieve maybe a knighthood if they've done well in this over time.
Maybe changed a little from the gladiators, but the voilence, the audience for it, and the honour given to it is still there.
Science goes on tests and theories, it relies on outcomes, but the more they progress they come to different understandings, of which they once called one understanding true, but over time and more tests and discoveries they then come up with a new more modern truth.
How can this be truth and fact?
That doesn't convince my mind, and don't think it ever can.
It doesn't make that much difference to me, what age the world is, but the evidence i seek, is how the things that are made, by the Creator, point a spiritual message of His existence and divine Love.
For i believe nothing was created in vain, for if you believe in a God as creator, and complete wisdom, then how can it be.
He created then nothing without a reason or purpose, i tend to think, nothing of this world has a solely physical purpose but also a divine message.
And the purpose of any divine message is for God to live within us, for we to live, be joined to Him as one truly in His Love.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
"Snapshot/soundbite"? hmmm... The O.T. is so rich and full of wisdom. I don't think anyone should study like that.
Try a diiferent Christian church. Love your God with all your mind... (I do not think he meant us to ignore the N.T.)
....it was a time of many prophets and learned individuals, and to them Jesus was one of them, a highly regarded rabbi and prophet.
How could Jesus be just a prophet? None of the others were the son of God?
Namaste Pattimax, I am not saying the Old testament isn't full of wisdom or that I take snapshots from it...in the scope of Judaic Scriptures the entire OT is but a snapshot. Look at it this way the Ot is what 2/3 of Christian scripture, yet only 1/5 of Jewish scripture?
I was asked what Jews thought....we must remember it is only Christians that believe Jesus to be G-d and Son of G-d, not Jews (or 3/4 of the world). I would say much of the world feels we are all children (sons and daughters) of G-d.
paul
recovering sinner
But no one comes close to the perfectness of Jesus to be of the same essence of the Father.
For as sons and daughters come from their parents.
We are far from the genes of the Father, Jesus was completely.
And even if they are within us, but have become corrupted by our own ill living, how then can we get back to the pure nature of our genes?
We would have to be born again, and of what nature?
And even if of a spiritual rebirth, we still don't reach to the purity of the genes of Jesus, but we aknowledge Him as of the Father like no other.
Even if we are to become as sons and daughters, i don't think anyone can claim equality in the same way Jesus was the son of God.
For as sons and daughters come from their parents.
We are far from the genes of the Father, Jesus was completely.
And even if they are within us, but have become corrupted by our own ill living, how then can we get back to the pure nature of our genes?
We would have to be born again, and of what nature?
And even if of a spiritual rebirth, we still don't reach to the purity of the genes of Jesus, but we aknowledge Him as of the Father like no other.
Even if we are to become as sons and daughters, i don't think anyone can claim equality in the same way Jesus was the son of God.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
ummm I'm a Christian. I don't study with Jewish Mindset. I just am adding to my studies by studying the same information that Jesus did, and am finding it quite enlightening. Jesus didn't take the midrash, or talmud or other texts out of the canon...that was 300 years after him, he studied, utilized and grew from the knowledge in those books.
But I also find the second concept interesting... When I die and I am dead wrong, Oh well.... But, what if you're wrong?" So if Christians are wrong, yet Jews, or Muslims, or Hindu's or anyone else who has an afterlife or reincarnation in their belief system is right...you don't think you have to 'live' with your decision?
Please be certain, I am not saying or implying Christianity is wrong, I just find this sales pitch that is so commonly used to be quite specious.
ps Did Silas disappear?
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Jesus had you beat from the beginning. He is God.You are not.
You said that you were studying with Jews and you were so impressed with their breadth and depth of knowledge, silly me. You just study like them. My mistake.
Please be certain... (sorry, I'm not.)
So tell me about the repercussions I will face for choosing Christ? (I cannot type this with a straight face.)
And I apologize that you have a problem with my approach. I view fellow human beings as very important.
No. Silas did not appear on my computer.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
You're absolutely right. HE can do anything HE wants.
Well, here I go, being simple again--
Doesn't the Bible suggest that God's timing is not like ours? I don't understand the conflict between scientific findings and the accounts in the Bible (or the Torah and other Hebrew texts from which it evolves, for that matter).
2c, I guess.
InPeace,
InLove
Doesn't the Bible suggest that God's timing is not like ours? I don't understand the conflict between scientific findings and the accounts in the Bible (or the Torah and other Hebrew texts from which it evolves, for that matter).
2c, I guess.
InPeace,
InLove
I don't see reprecussions for me or you for following Christ...I don't know the Koran enough to know what it says there, however tis my belief that G-d would see your following in Jesus footsteps ok, despite what Mohamed says...but that is my opinion, I'd say G-d hasn't told me so...but since it is in my heart, I believe it to be true. And if the Hindi's are right than and you don't quite make it, but again have followed in the footsteps of Jesus...and you have to come back for another trip or two, I don't think you'll be coming back as a beetle or an untouchable...as you should have improved your status and understanding in this life...
(I'm still chuckling about your issues with typing with a straight face...tisn't often I get to!) But again, I see the introspection and the discussion valuable.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Oh yeah, wil - are you studying the entire bible?
got thru it one and a half times...
and yeah and I get into it all...issues with revelation (my biggest pet peeve is why do people call it revelations?)
and yeah and I get into it all...issues with revelation (my biggest pet peeve is why do people call it revelations?)
pattimax
Somewhat returning
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