Tao_Equus said:
When did I liken your thoughts to the ideaology of C18? No, not by implication or otherwise. It was you that did so to me.
who the heck is talking about C18? when did i mention C18? you were the first to use the word "fascist", not me, in this sentence:
PS, I sort of resent being called a warmed up facist.[sic] I am anything but.
i then reacted to your use of the word "fascist" by telling you that this statement, again of *yours*:
And this is the nub of it, the churches, mosques and synagogues of the world are full to overspilling with hypocracy[sic]
you are, in this statement, lumping all abrahamic believers into one boat. you are treating us all the same. you are ascribing views to me that i do not hold and you are nonetheless condemning me for them. i consider that highly problematic. in fact, to condemnation and scapegoating of a group of people by their group identity is the sort of thing that i consider *fascistic*, hence my comment. what i do *not* mean is that it has necessarily got anything to do with neo-nazis - many groups have been fascist without being nazis, like the italian and spanish fascists and the baath party. hence, i can call something fascistic without implying any connection with C18 (of all groups!) - that would be like saying that i was anti-zionist because satmar chasidim are anti-zionist and we're all religious jews. i think you probably get my point, so perhaps we could dispense with the name-calling now.
now, to the actual point:
bananabrain said:
what exactly is your point here? that jews are not immune to being chauvinistic, greedy and corrupt?
Tao_Equus said:
well, i think you win the Mr Bleeding Obvious Prize. i'd like to see an ethnic/religious group that you couldn't say exactly the same about. i've never claimed that jews are better than anybody else - only that we ought to aspire to be better than we generally are, because we are so Commanded. i wouldn't have thought that that was controversial, but you never know.
I can easilly compile a list of high profile people who are Jewish.
you could do the same with greeks - i'm sure postmaster will oblige us if he feels like it.
People that excrsise great power in the world, are in effect unaccoutable to anyone and are most definitely corrupt and see nepotism as their right. One in the news at the moment, Paul Wolfowitz, architect of the Iraqi invasion and sacked from the World Bank for.......yes nepotism.
yes, that's right, getting his girlfriend (who's an arab, incidentally) a better job. seeing as he's just been forced to resign and been publicly savaged and disgraced i'd say that he had been made fairly accountable.
In fact looking closely there are an inordinate number of Jews in high power postions in the US, UK and elsewhere given population demographics. I dont claim some semetic conspiracy nor brand all Jews with one mark. But it is undeniable that there is a powerful elite there and many of them, most of them, are Jews.
unfortunately, t_e, this is a rather tendentious statement. what do you mean, "most"? who's counted them? who's gone round checking whether they're jewish or not? how do you define whether someone is in a "high power position" or part of the "elite"? are you saying that jews should be subject to some sort of ethnic employment quota? because that used to be the case, you know. i mean, seriously, mate, you must understand how silly this statement actually is.
Do I believe this to be because of their religion? No of course I don't.
then what's your point?
Alan Greenspan may criticise other jews, I dont know, but I know he was the architect of Black Friday and the Dot Com bubble in which joe-punter shareholders were ripped off to the tune of billions. His history leads right back to the Kissinger gang. So if this guy be a hero....well i dont think much of your choices.
i never said he was a hero, i chose him as an example of someone extremely influential who also happened to be jewish. and how, exactly was he the "architect" of black friday and the dotcom bubble? i presume you mean that he said things to try and calm down overvalued markets. but wasn't that his job? he wasn't actually controlling the markets (they are by definition free, unless you are suggesting otherwise and know something about capital markets that i don't) then surely it is the markets themselves which overvalue things? if joe-punter wants to invest his savings into plastic-knockers.com instead of buying a house, how is that greenspan's fault when he says that the market is "irrationally exuberant" (i believe that was the phrase) and prophesies a crash to come? plenty of other non-jewish central bankers said the same thing. so what exactly are you accusing him of?
I make no secret of my dislike of Israeli policy toward the Palestinians. This dislike is on humanitarian grounds and nothing else.
who's talking about israel and the palestinians? not me.
I am troubled by the foreign policy of the Republican party leadership in the US, which is disproportionately heavy with Jewish policy makers. Again this is on humanitarian grounds.
really? because you do presumably know that most jews actually vote democrat - and have always done. look it up.
If you read back over what I was saying I never at any stage singled out the Jews as a special case.
and that's kind of what i objected to. i object to you putting all jews, christians and muslims together in a big, convenient sack to hit with a stick. as you yourself put it:
The point I originaly attempted to make was that religions are easy meat for the the power hungry. And I dont mean money hungry tho that does factor in too usually. I make no distinction between the religions in this regard. Further I contended that the nature of organised faith facilitates the manipulation of the masses, to hold power, and that this is no accident.
now, it may suit you rhetorically speaking but it ought to be obvious that any argument which relies on lumping me in with jerry falwell and mahmoud ahmedinejad is frankly rather an absurd generalisation and deserves to be punctured.
Postmaster said:
I'm sure Bananabrain can tell you that Jews would snob other Jews that are not even in the same class too.
oh, hell yeah. you should meet my in-laws. or not.
b'shalom
bananabrain