Capital Punishment

Just curious of some of these responses from those on the Christian side.
What happenend to :

Matthew 5:38-45
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: [39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [40] And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. [41] And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. [42] Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Is it not applicable? Will peace ever come by an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth? Perhaps not.

Love and Peace,
JM
 
JosephM said:
Just curious of some of these responses from those on the Christian side.
What happenend to :

Matthew 5:38-45
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: [39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [40] And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. [41] And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. [42] Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
[43] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Is it not applicable? Will peace ever come by an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth? Perhaps not.

Love and Peace,
JM
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Jesus did not come to abolish the Law, but to establish it. Yet at first glance, it appears here that He is contradicting it. But what Jesus is doing is showing how we should temper the Law with Mercy, much like He did in the incident with the woman caught in adultery and about to be stoned (John 8).

What good does it do to hate your enemy? For one, it will just cause bitterness to be harbored in the victim's friends and families. Second, it does nothing to change the murderer. The courts have every right to mete out punishment to the point allowable by law. But in certain circumstances, where the convicted has shown remorse, the court has shown mercy. Plus there are cases where the victim's families don't insist on the death penalty. There has also been instances, rare enough, where a victim's mother has sat faced to face with their child's murderer and actually forgave them, and in some cases it has changed the convict.

But none of that changes the standard. The Law does not change. But without the law, there is no means implement compassion. When the adulterous woman was presented to Jesus, He did not try to stop the execution. Rather He sought mercy in the hearts of her accusers, and found it. It wasn't all about the forgiveness of the woman, but the forgiveness for their own wicked hearts.

By the way, today is the day when this woman is scheduled for execution:

Henderson, Cathy Lynn: White; age 37 at crime and now age 48 (DOB: 12-27-1956); murder of white male age 3 months (she was babysitter) near Austin (Travis County) on 1-21-1994; sentenced on 5-25-1995, execution currently scheduled for April 18, 2007 (Stayed and rescheduled for June 13, 2007).
 
Dondi,

It seems to me what you are doing is trying to keep both the Old and the New. Even we as carnal humans reason when a New Last Will and Testament is created to remember to replace the Old with the new so confusion will not result. Jesus said he came to fulfil the law. He (Jesus) according to the Bible did not say "I have not come to abolish the law but to establish it."
Rather he said:
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Fulfil = pleroo, play-ro'-o; from Greek 4134 (pleres); to make replete

He satisfied or made replete the law that you should no longer have to be under it. Tell me that you desire to be under the law that genders unto bondage. Do you not hear the law? The law was a schoolmaster to slay you and bring you to the knowledge of the truth.

Galatians 3:24-25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

You are dead to that law by the body of Christ. The law for us is the law of love. It is spiritual and supersedes the Old. Do you still mix Old wine with New. Killing is killing and and peace will never come by "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". History is proof of this.

Love and Peace,
JM
 
I'm sorry, I misquoted. Rather I meant what Paul said in Romans 3:31:

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirement of the law, that is the consequences of breaking the law, through the Blood shed on the Cross. It is through Him that we are justified, that is made right. But that in no way implies that we don't have a duty to obey it. James makes this clear in his epistle:

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment." - James 2:8-13

You speak of this Law of Love as if it were separated from the Law of Moses (ten commandments), but Jesus makes it clear that all the law and prophets hang upon the the two commandments: Love God and Love thy neighbor. This is the summary of the Ten. All the teachings of the Torah were predicated on those two commandments, teaching us how to love God and love our neighbor. The difference is that the law is written in our hearts through the Spirit, if we are led by the Spirit, which bears the fruit (i.e. love, joy peace, etc. Gal 5:22-23) from which there is no law. But this is a process that we will discover as we allow the Word to transform our minds. For the Spirit will not contradict the law.

But going back to the OP, look at that final verse: "For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment" If a person has no remorse over his actions, then the eye for an eye should apply.
 
Dondi,

I hear what you are quoting but The Law is spiritual not carnal. Mercy is the nature of God. "An Eye for an Eye" is no mercy and without there will be no peace. Blessed are the Peacemakers. Whether there is remorse or not the Law of an "eye for eye" has been replaced by the spiritual law of mercy and love which has no room for a killing for a killing.

Peace,
JM

PS It is easy to show mercy for him that has remorse but try blessing them that curse you. That is mercy.
 
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JosephM said:
Dondi,

I hear what you are quoting but The Law is spiritual not carnal. Mercy is the nature of God. "An Eye for an Eye" is no mercy and without there will be no peace. Blessed are the Peacemakers. Whether there is remorse or not the Law of an "eye for eye" has been replaced by the spiritual law of mercy and love which has no room for a killing for a killing.

Peace,
JM

PS It is easy to show mercy for him that has remorse but try blessing them that curse you. That is mercy.
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Well, then, lets just be merciful and let all our criminals out on the street, shall we? Let's see how peaceful things become.
 
Dondi said:
Well, then, lets just be merciful and let all our criminals out on the street, shall we? Let's see how peaceful things become.
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There are always more alternatives than one extreme or the other Dondi. Never implied letting criminals go scott free ... just always to apply mercy so not to take life for life, eye for eye, etc. Preadventure they will repent. A dead man has no chance to repent or show remorse.

Peace JM
 
Sorry but I agree with capital punishment in cases where people are a continued menace to society. The problem I have with it is that it can be, and here often is, abused. To have a system of capital punishment you would need a society that is totally unbiased and uncorruptable - show me where that is and I am moving there tomorrow.
 
17th Angel said:
Of course you would, being a muslim an all....
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I strongly agreed with it before I became a Muslim, I now have difficulty with it because Muslims using Sharia law are the worst offenders when it comes to abusing the system. :p
 
There is no future in capital punishment, there is no way ahead. It is back tracking, it isn't a way forward... Specially being people of religion I would expect you all to be loving and freaking merciful.... What seperates us from a mere animal? Compassion.....

As already said, you can't gain peace via force, you also can't cease criminal activity via murder of the offenders... :|
 
17th Angel said:
As already said, you can't gain peace via force, you also can't cease criminal activity via murder of the offenders... :|
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but you can protect the innocent from serial rapists, serial murderers, paedophile rings, etc. It is not about punishing the wicked but about protecting the innocent.
 
Even though they have done whatever look at these pictures (all three of them)... Tell me what you feel? Is this right? Is this showing protection? Is it truly nesscary? Anyway, I'd like to know what you feel when you look at them.. I wonder if you have ever seen what you believe in as right... Now is your chance.... Look at what you believe in. Just take a few seconds to look at each one, not just glance... Give time to each one and focus on it.

http://www.ccadp.org/davis3.jpg
http://www.ccadp.org/davis2.jpg
http://www.ccadp.org/davis1.jpg


2300v....... You people are no better... If I had a God.... He wouldn't stand for this.
 
17th Angel said:
Even though they have done whatever look at these pictures (all three of them)... Tell me what you feel? Is this right? Is this showing protection? Is it truly nesscary? Anyway, I'd like to know what you feel when you look at them.. I wonder if you have ever seen what you believe in as right... Now is your chance.... Look at what you believe in. Just take a few seconds to look at each one, not just glance... Give time to each one and focus on it.
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Yes I believe there are times we must kill to protect, when it is the lesser of two evils.

I had a good look at all 3 pictures but can't really feel anything or comment on them without knowing what the person was convicted of. If he abducted, raped and tortured to death children then I feel nothing other than sadness for his victims, their families and his own family. If you can tell me what he was convicted of then I can comment and tell you what I feel.
 
How, cold... How, ugly.... It doesn't matter what he did... That was once a living being, and you couldn't give a * less.... That seriously is ugly.... What if that was your father, brother, son, friend, uncle whatever... Terrible.

He beat a woman to death and shot her daughter. But that doesn't come into it... He himself was murdered. Two wrongs do not make a right...

I know I shouldn't but I am going to... Your a fool for thinking you have to kill a man to protect..... England no longer kills it's murders and so on... Are we not protected? Beside the point, you have caught that threat... There is ALWAYS another threat at large and not inprisioned...

What of Jesse J Tafero.... Killed Via electric chair.... Found innocent... He didn't even do anything... He had the same fate as Davis... NOW What if that was your son, father, husband??

This is a bit of information on the murder of Tafero...
"However, the machine, dubbed "Old Sparky", malfunctioned, causing six-inch flames to shoot out of Tafero's head. In all, three jolts of electricity were required to render Tafero dead, a process that took 13.5 minutes."
 
17th Angel said:
How, cold... How, ugly.... It doesn't matter what he did... That was once a living being, and you couldn't give a * less.... That seriously is ugly.... What if that was your father, brother, son, friend, uncle whatever... Terrible.
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If my father, brother, son, friend, uncle whatever had beaten a woman to death and shot a child and there was a chance they would do it again, I would flip the switch myself.

17th Angel said:
Two wrongs do not make a right...
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No they don't, as I said it is not about punishment but protection. Has he beaten any women to death since?

17th Angel said:
England no longer kills it's murders and so on... Are we not protected? Beside the point, you have caught that threat... There is ALWAYS another threat at large and not inprisioned...
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And what are the rates of reoffending in the UK now? Wasn't a woman raped and murdered last year because they let a serial rapist out of prison 6 times and each time he raped again, until he ended up killing as they usually do in the end?

17th Angel said:
What of Jesse J Tafero.... Killed Via electric chair.... Found innocent... He didn't even do anything... He had the same fate as Davis... NOW What if that was your son, father, husband??
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This is why I said it can only work in a society that in fact does not exist to my knowledge on this planet.

17th Angel said:
This is a bit of information on the murder of Tafero...
"However, the machine, dubbed "Old Sparky", malfunctioned, causing six-inch flames to shoot out of Tafero's head. In all, three jolts of electricity were required to render Tafero dead, a process that took 13.5 minutes."
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Please don't bother to try and shock me with such things, I have been to war so very little can shock me now.

However, I have also interviewed a 6 year old boy who had been repeatedly raped by 3 grown men. I counted every cut and burn on his little body, from where these men had tortured him for fun. I watched the shell of his father hating himself for not protecting his son and the mother who could not speak or cry with the horror of her beloved child recounting his tale. I read the doctors report of how this little boys anus had to be pieced back together and his penis would only be semi functional for the remainder of his life. I labelled the evidence bags that contained the items they had pushed up this childs anus and down his penis, causing untold damage. Now ask me if I feel compassion for the sick criminals that did this or if I would inject the death drug myself, without any emotion other than relief that they could never do this to another child? Or do you think we should house them in a nice cell, buy them a playstation and when they have been good boys allow them to disappear into society - that would be your society.
 
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