Who do you like?

[China Cat Sunflower]

Right now I like Edwards.

 

[Pathless]

Kucinich seems the most sane and spiritual to me. He gets my vote.

 

[cavalier]

From the coverage I've seen over here, it seems that there's really only Clinton and Obama capable of winning the Democratic nomination. Is this fair/wrong/or just too early to tell?

 

[wil]

Where is my none of the above?

Edwards- Electable, Republican big money lawyer in ill fitting sheeps clothing
Hillary- Unelectable
Obama- Unelectable
Kucinich - Love him too radical for the masses, unelectable

McCain- Electable by the country, unnominatable by Republicans
Rudy- Too many skeletons and too left wing for Republicans
Romney and Thompson, either will win against any current Democrat.

my opinions...

I rarely vote for Dempulicans or Republicrats and they don't care which is in control as long as it is a two party system. I only vote for someone I want to win...not against the other party or person.

Third party votes are valuable, the party/candidates platform ideals get co-opted and utilized by both the major parties trying to woo your votes next election....like Perot's balanced budget fiscal conservativeness...worked for years... and the green party pushing into environmental concerns. Anytime any of them get significant votes the Rep/Dems shake in their boots.

Time for the Constitutionalists and Libertarians to get votes so we can retain some of our rights and civil liberties before we become a complete federal state...

 

[seattlegal]

Yuck! None of the above! I'll probably vote libertarian, unless Ron Paul really starts gaining ground.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hey Wil!

I like the game of politics. I can compartmentalize. On a personal level, and in my heart, I'm ideologically a libertarian anarchist. That's political utopia. Several floors of pragmatic detachment later I'm in the realm of what I think is optimistically possible. That's the stuff I'm willing to work for. But there's an armchair quarterback facet to the game of politics. I like putting my personal attachments aside and enjoying the wonk factor of it all. Politics is like a football game that never ends.

My main battle, and I suspect others feel this way as well, is between heart and head. There are only two real lefties on the Democratic bench: Kucinich and Gravel. I listened to an hour long interview with Gravel, former Senator from Alaska and Watergate/ Freedom of Information Act hero on NPR. This is my kind of guy. He's really solid Left. Kucinich is nearly made out of gold. He opposed the war, he's vegan or something. He's an old guy with a hot younger wife--well, Grandpa Fred has that goin' on too. If a miracle happened... but it won't. I think that Joe Biden would make a great President. He's probably the smartest guy in the room. He's the only one of the Dem candidates I've heard say anything realistic on Iraq. I don't know if you all are aware, but there's a big battle going on for the heart of the Democratic Party. On one side you have the we un's: that's the net roots anti-war Bush hater's, and on the other there's the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) and the rest of the D. Party king makers. You'll recall that back in the glorious Clinton years the DLC was the think tank that helped deliver the WTO, and Nafta, and a whole bunch of other "centrist" improvements that helped the cause of internationalism and "globalization" along.

On the right it's just all fear all the time, isn't it? Fear of illegal immigrants. Fear of terrorism. 9-11. It'll be interesting to see the Pubs shift gears after the primaries when they no longer have to convince their paranoid evangelical base. I don't blame Grandpa Fred (dun duun) for trying to avoid the primaries as much as possible. It's going to be a bloodbath on the right this time.

Chris

 

[17th Angel]

No idea who any of those people are.... I voted republican.

 

[Jack Halyard]

Ron Paul is the only candidate that seems to understand the Constitution.

 

[flowperson]

None of the above. In the back in the day past I voted for Perot, Perot, and then Nader...just because we needed CHANGE. The last time I held my nostrils and voted for Kerry.

This time I'm just throwing up my hands and throwing up.

If either one got to the finals I'd go with China Cat and vote for either Gravel or Kucinich...but they won't get there.

flow....

 

[Ahanu]

I like Senator Obama but most people seem to be in favor of Hillary. Hopefully Barack Obama will be able to get 30% more of the black community to come and vote like he promised! By the way, this is going to be my first time voting. I am pretty siked out about this. I would not be suprised if the republican party pulled out Condoleezza Rice for this one. It would be like committing suicide if they did not. The Democratic party has Hillary and Obama on their team, so it would be no shock to me if she popped up on the next poll.

 

[Pathless]

Yuck! None of the above! I'll probably vote libertarian, unless Ron Paul really starts gaining ground.

and

Ron Paul is the only candidate that seems to understand the Constitution.

I think Ron Paul is starting to get more attention. I certainly am perking up my ears. I've heard the name for a while but am only now checking out what he is really about. Here's an interesting video of him talking about individual freedom vs the State. I am also impressed by this article he wrote. Unlike our current president, he seems articulate and intelligent.

 

[wil]

I think Ron Paul is starting to get more attention.

Ron Paul has an interesting strategy going on... His volunteers are calling every talk show/newspaper/media outlet to try to get his name out there...and it is working...

 

[Pathless]

Ron Paul has an interesting strategy going on... His volunteers are calling every talk show/newspaper/media outlet to try to get his name out there...and it is working...

Yes, the grassroots approach. Wow, what a novel idea!! Democratic, even!!

Hey, I like it! I like it!

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Well, Ron Paul is really a Libertarian. He's kind of a Barry Goldwater Libertarian. I admire Mr. Paul for speaking truth to power on the war, but he's also made some disturbing comments about the separation of church and state. Still, of all the GOP candidates his positions are the closest to my own. Except...I'm a lefty, and I really don't have to look further than the two real lefties we're running on the Dem side: Gravel and Kucinich to find a candidate who strikes me as absolutely straight up. Now, I'm not a true believer. I can handicap the horses and I'm more than aware of the most likely scenario, but when I go to vote in the primary I'm voting my conscience. I'm voting for Dennis Kucinich. And I'm going to volunteer and help get out the vote for Kucinich even though I doubt he can edge the anointed three. But you never know...something wild might happen. The people may yet defy the media and the Party king makers.

If I were on the Republican side I would take a hard look at Huckabee. He's a former southern governor and that helps. Governors are statistically easier to get elected to POTUS than members of Congress. He's solid with the religious right without being stained by it. He doesn't have the bad baggage and history of taking duplicitous positions that the top three have.

Chris

 

[Pathless]

I admire Mr. Paul for speaking truth to power on the war, but he's also made some disturbing comments about the separation of church and state.

Hey Chris, can you expand on this? What is his position or what has he said? Could we expect to become the Christian United States of America under his reign--I mean any more so than we currently are?

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Hey Pathy!

You can google it. Here's the first link I got The War on Religion by Rep. Ron Paul

Chris

 

[Pathless]

And as I often do, I've attempted to find on my own an answer to my question. Here's what I've found so far. A snippet written in 2003:

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]

The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government’s hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation’s history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.[/FONT]

Annnnnd...

that turns me off, too. Y'all know how I feel about Christmas.

 

[Pathless]

Here's an interesting editorial that refers to the above opinion piece by Ron Paul.

 

[Pathless]

One more and I'll stop. I know others can do this for themselves, we're all big people here. Sometimes I just like to boost my post count by cut-and-paste endeavors. What can I say? I am very vain when it comes to my post count there in the left margin.

Watch this--

Ooooooh! Ding!! I just hit 1,260! Celebrate good times, c'mon!

Oh um. Here's what I wanted to post. See, it's got his picture there, too:




Ron Paul has worked to hobble the freedom of religion, claiming that there should be no separation of Church and State in American government. In a speech in 2002 explaining his introduction of legislation that would forbid American federal district courts and federal claims courts from hearing cases in which citizens claim to have had their religious freedom violated, Representative Paul complained,

"In case after case, the Supreme Court has used the infamous 'Separation of Church and State' metaphor to uphold court decisions that allow the federal government to intrude upon and deprive citizens of their religious liberty."​

Ron Paul further complained in that speech that the government ought not to be blocked from establishing official prayers in schools and at public events, and promoting the Old Testament as the source of American law in courthouses through the exclusive display of the Ten Commandments. In doing so, Ron Paul sided with radical right wing Christian zealots who seek theocracy, like Judge Roy Moore from Alabama.


Ron Paul's legislation, if enacted, would have enabled a two-class system of rights in America, with members of majority religious groups able to establish special rights to enforce their beliefs through the power of government institutions, and others unable to protect their right to not participate in the majority's religious rituals through the constitutionally-guaranteed access to the courts.

Ron Paul Opposes Separation of Church And State

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

It's the toady factor. You can't be the toad of the cons and the religious right and get my vote. You listenin' McCain?

Chris