There IS no other Savior. If you come up with something, I want names and credible documentation... You can believe the earth is flat or the moon is made of cheese, doesn't make it so.
I won't hold my breath.
This is not a solution, patti ...
juantoo3 said:
I would dearly love to hear about one or two of your friends who are persons first and who just happen to be paedophiles, or heroin addicts, or armed burglers second. These too are simply lifestyle choices. In my humble opinion these are unwise lifestyle choices, but nevertheless these are lifestyle choices just the same. Even with these examples I can love the person and not condone the behavior. Can you say the same?
The problem here, my narrow-minded, bigoted and self-righteous friend, is that these are all
"lifestyle choices" which adversely affect others
directly. Such people are abusing others, or are putting themselves in such dangerous circumstances (drug addicts) that they may very well - and sometimes do -
hurt people.
Homosexuals do not typically HURT people, juantoo3. But you, you bunch of
self-righteous, judgmental JESUS-FREAKS ...
you, on the other hand, have the potential to
gather together in MOBS, and either LYNCH people ... or, something far more
insidious - you are
just intelligent enough (though clearly lacking the LOVE that should go with it) to ORGANIZE, to LOBBY, to PITCH YOUR ROYAL FIT before government officials ... and bring about legislation
that will hurt homosexuals,
or will allow such hate crimes as you yourselves commit to go unpunished. And I will not say that ALL hate crimes against homosexuals are committed "in the name of Jesus." No, not
all. Just PLENTY. You already demonstrate this. RIGHT HERE. RIGHT NOW.
Webster's Collegiate
bigot - a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices;
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
prejudice -
a (1)
: preconceived judgment or opinion (2)
: an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
b : an instance of such judgment or opinion
c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
judgmental - characterized by a tendency to judge harshly
self-righteous -
convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic
~+~+~
No, juantoo3, it is not
every Christian at C-R who demonstrates him or herself to be a bigot, prejudiced, judgmental and self-righteous
in the extreme. Not by a long shot. Whatever other mistakes I may make, I will not dare to say
that "Christians do x, or do not do y," as if it were that easy to
draw these imaginary lines in the sand ... which
you have done, which Blazn has done, and which pattimax has done.
But let us see ... if others are happy to
hop on the bandwagon, and either prove their intolerance and hate, or perhaps simply use this as an excuse to
redirect that hate to one of your favorite old scapegoats -
ANYONE ... who just happens to call a spade, a spade.
Yes, yes, juantoo3, you have been here awhile, you have made some good posts, yadda yadda ... but we don't need to hear more about
glass houses and throwing stones, and watch you try and shake this one off, or
justify yourself.
God observes what is going on, the same as you and I, except that
God sees through the BULLSHIT.
And guess what, pal.
SO DO I
Does that make me
God? Gee, I didn't really think of it that way. If it is so, it is only because YOU said so. All I had really figured, is that
I've got a little common sense, and perhaps the recognition that HOMOSEXUALS ARE PEOPLE!
But, you great
PRINCE of narrow-mindedness,
YOU can't even recognize and
ADMIT THAT, for you were DETERMINED to argue EVEN THAT point ... and still you try to tell ME that my logic is convoluted!?!
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, Andrew / Taijasi / Zagreus!
The
epitome of sarcasm is to show FALSE respect. Juantoo3, you EXCEL in this area ...
But then, for someone who
so vigorously argues against the very existence of the Christ within ...
I SHOULD EXPECT NO MORE.
You do not follow
even your OWN religious teachings, or accept what is therein taught, pattimax.
WHY SHOULD you recognize the
Christ in another culture, in another religion, in another people, another person, let alone another GROUP whose behavior you do not happen to condone!
It has been SO DAMN TEMPTING to simply say, in this angry post of mine, "
YOU PEOPLE make me sick!" And really I only hesitate for ONE reason:
I would just have it be CLEAR, if
nothing else was, that I have no antipathy toward ...
those who actually BOTHER to PRACTICE the Love, the Brotherly Love, tolerance, and acceptance ... which Christ Jesus
taught, and ASKED us to practice.
Why aren't you helping AIDS victims, volunteering where this deadly disease is claiming lives,
if you are so convinced that homosexuality is wrong?
Here is the ONE area, when I say something like THAT, where you can turn it around, and say,
"Why aren't YOU, Andrew?" And since I am not, I can only say,
touche!
What you CANNOT say, is
why are YOU prejudiced, and bigoted, and self-righteous, with regard to YOUR behaviour, vs. those in
some other entire GROUP. And the reason you cannot say that, is that
I do not look out at the world, and throw my stones,
at entire GROUPS of people. And certainly I should not throw them at random individuals, here and there,
whom I just happen not to agree with!
But here, we see a
beautiful, shining example of the kind of HATRED, the kind of INTOLERANCE, the kind of BIGOTRY, PREJUDICE, FEAR and
SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS which the Lord of Lords came before
to speak out against!
And he DID so,
NOT because it takes GOD, or even the Son of God to be able to DISCERN these
ugly practices ... it was because
he was courageous enough to bring these things to light, while no one else had the proberbial
cajones.
Nor did Jesus speak
self-righteously, because if ever a man was TRULY RIGHTEOUS, it was Jesus!
Yet you, pattimax, and various others (such as Blazn), YOU, you will
not only fail to see the true RIGHTEOUSNESS which Christ Jesus had
earned, and which he deomonstrated ... you will
insert your own SELF into the way - and make of
YOUR JUDGMENTAL ACTIONS - a FALSE righteousness, which allows you to JUDGE, CONDEMN, and BEMOAN others ... for something which REALLY doesn't affect
you at all - or with regard to which, in the very least, you should feel
compassion, understanding and sympathy.
Again, why is it not the same as
I speak out, and as
others speak out, with regard to what
YOU have done?
Because, friends, while WHAT you are doing
PLAIN, flat DIGUSTS me, I do not say,
this is WHO you are, I only say it is
how you are.
And your claim is that
your precious Bible teaches you that homosexuality is wrong. Well whether or not that is so,
YOU HAVE FAILED TO SEE THE POINT. That Bible is there, for
YOU TO APPLY, TO YOUR LIFE - NOT to
LORD over other poeple, so that they may live the way
YOU insist.
And even if a man or woman is Christian, let HIM OR HER develop the relationship with God, and make sure that
all you do is to HELP them. And
if they ASK YOU for help
with their sexual choices, THEN YOU MAY HELP THEM ... diplomatically, carefully and non-presumptuously so.
But
YOU put the cart
well before the horse, and you PRESUME to dictate to others
THEIR OWN MORALITY ... based upon
YOUR standards.
I am SICK of this, because I see it every day,
but here on this forum, be it my last, dying act, I would do all I can to expose such SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS and HYPOCRISY.
Yet
I will not JUDGE an entire GROUP of people,
homosexual, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, politically conservative, or OTHERWISE ... because that only shows
ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
You and your
bigger dogs may tear every limb from my body (I think it was LIONS once upon a time) ... but for ONCE, the truth on this matter
needs to be heard.
(And while I would
never wish any true
harm upon any of you, juantoo3, Blazn, pattimax, etc. ... I think I would give my
right - arm - to have you all three dropped into a crown of about 10 million homosexuals marching through the streets at a gay demonstration. I would just like to see you all,
packed in there together ... with no way to get your poor little self-righteous
bible-thumpin selves out of there - oh, say for
at least ten minutes! I dunno, maybe once they realized you needed out, the only way would be to hoist you up,
and hand you over, just like at a rock concert.
Yes, that would fairly well
make my day.)
