juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Kindest Regards, AndrewX!
Try starting by letting go of a judgmental attitude.
Try starting by letting go of a judgmental attitude.
Changing Sexual Orientation Is Possible, New Research Says
- Thread starter BlaznFattyz
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taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
I am clearly quite upset by this issue ... and I freely admit that I have difficulty - focusing on one particular aspect of it, because of the milieu, the environment, the circumstances ... in which we are discussing it. I don't mean this forum; I mean America, or the UK, or perhaps any other country, in 2007 ... given what has taken place in the past few year and decades, and also the social setting of 2100 years ago in Palestine (as if that really has any direct relevance on homosexuality in today's global village).
So instead of making a further ass of myself, I will end my comments by quoting again from your Savior, as Basstian has already done earlier in the discussion:
Namaskar,
~Andrew
So instead of making a further ass of myself, I will end my comments by quoting again from your Savior, as Basstian has already done earlier in the discussion:
Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone. -- John 8:7
I will stand in front of any one of you, or between the entire crowd of you, blocking a single homosexual, or even every homosexual ... clinging only to the above Biblical passage (and its meaning, as spoken by its true author) as my Shield.Namaskar,
~Andrew
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Andrew,
How is acknowledging that there is only one true Savior sticking my head in the sand?
Posting little pictures is NOT credible docomentation. Posting little pictures is a lame defense. There is no Savior equal to Jesus Christ.
There are tribal, prehistoric, Aztec, Mayan, Andean, Ancient Iran (fun stuff), Sikhism, Buddhism, Hinduism (really fun stuff- I will make no editorial comment on their statues), Janism ("The Doctrine of Maybe"- I am serious, those words are in their dogma), Confucianism (never really liked it), Taoism (did like it), Islam (don't like the Koran among other things), Shintoism (Shinto/Japanese Buddhism), and Judaism.
Please tell me what I left out. There is NOT a living Savior in there.
Karen
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Karen, EVERY other world religion acknowledges a DIFFERENT Savior than Jesus of Nazareth. Some of them even acknowledge several ... often INCLUDING Jesus of Nazareth.
How strange, that Christianity ... or churchianity ... or YOU, anyway - do not seem ready, or capable, of acknowledging the same. That is your choice. And I'll leave it to Jesus, to explain for you (later) - why things aren't quite the way you've apparently come to believe.
Any questions there? Take 'em to God; take 'em to Jesus.
Kill the messenger, if you must ... god knows, it must be inconvenient for you ...
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Karen, EVERY other world religion acknowledges a DIFFERENT Savior than Jesus of Nazareth. Some of them even acknowledge several ... often INCLUDING Jesus of Nazareth.
How strange, that Christianity ... or churchianity ... or YOU, anyway - do not seem ready, or capable, of acknowledging the same. That is your choice. And I'll leave it to Jesus, to explain for you (later) - why things aren't quite the way you've apparently come to believe.
Any questions there? Take 'em to God; take 'em to Jesus.
Kill the messenger, if you must ... god knows, it must be inconvenient for you ...
A LIVING savior, I don't think so. And the ones that acknowledge Jesus say that He is just a prophet.
Killing messengers is not my style. Besides you ARE not saying anything, you're just following your own self serving agenda.
Are you a complete jerk?
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Keep throwing your rocks, lady.pattimax said:
Meanwhile, I will quote ANOTHER LIVING SAVIOR ... One Whom you are too blind, too blind to see:
"Hate has never yet conquered hate; only Love conquers hate."
Your precious Jeeeeeezus taught that, as I recall. Where were you that day, Karen? Out calling people jerk? Out preaching something OTHER than Christ's doctrine of `Love thy Neighbor'?Yes. I would think so.
Probably stoning the local harlot, spitting on homosexuals, and telling all the people of other beliefs than yours - that they were going to burn in hell, forever.
Sad, truly sad.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Keep throwing your rocks, lady.
Meanwhile, I will quote ANOTHER LIVING SAVIOR ... One Whom you are too blind, too blind to see:
"Hate has never yet conquered hate; only Love conquers hate."Your precious Jeeeeeezus taught that, as I recall. Where were you that day, Karen? Out calling people jerk? Out preaching something OTHER than Christ's doctrine of `Love thy Neighbor'?
Yes. I would think so.
Probably stoning the local harlot, spitting on homosexuals, and telling all the people of other beliefs than yours - that they were going to burn in hell, forever.
Sad, truly sad.
I'm sorry, I suppose I left out that He was resurrected and conquered death.
"All you need is Love." Are the beatles on your list of saviors? John Lennon didn't make the cut. (That's a shame, I always liked him.)
Jesus was not above turning over tables, calling people hypocrites or a brood of vipers. I think you got off fairly easy with jerk. Besides, is it true?
Not everyone is as inflammatory as you see.
bob x
Well-Known Member
It is not a "lifestyle choice": it is my LIFE. Like most females, and some other males, I am attracted by the male body, and not by the female body. I was never asked to fill in a form and requisition my sense of beauty. I also enjoy blue cheese and garlic, which some others detest, and detest olives, which some others find tasty. I made no "choice" about that either.
??? What a bizarre question. Am I conscious of my own consciousness? Of course I am.
I have had Christians try to kill me, twice. No-one else has ever tried to kill me. I know, of course, that if I were in a Muslim country I would be even less safe, but Christians are the only group I have realistic fears of around here. [I know, I know, you are going to tell me "those aren't real Christians", I've heard the game before.]
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
I am still waiting for a response from Blazn about some of his close, true gay friends. Even just ONE.
And for that matter, I would be quite OPEN to hearing the same from juantoo3, OR pattimax.
Karen, you've been very vocal. Care to share something about one of your close friends, who just happens to be gay?
I have all the time in the world ...
You would prefer not to face the fact ... that in a very likely, or realistic scenario, your `God' - before opening those Pearly Gates and admitting you into Heaven, may very well ask you one, simple question. Your God, as I like to anthropomorphically imagine Her, might very well ask you:
I simply wonder, can ANY ONE of you three ... even face up to the challenge? All you have to do, is admit (if it is the case) - that you cannot, because you do not have even one, single, close, gay friend. And that's fine, because that is what I figured.
It is your homework, though I will not presume to be the teacher who assigned it.
And for that matter, I would be quite OPEN to hearing the same from juantoo3, OR pattimax.
Karen, you've been very vocal. Care to share something about one of your close friends, who just happens to be gay?
I have all the time in the world ...
You would prefer not to face the fact ... that in a very likely, or realistic scenario, your `God' - before opening those Pearly Gates and admitting you into Heaven, may very well ask you one, simple question. Your God, as I like to anthropomorphically imagine Her, might very well ask you:
Tell me, Dear One, about your relationships with your homosexual friends.
So let's pretend it's not me that is asking. And for that matter, let's just let that question move into the realm of the hypothetical. If you prefer, you can even bury it, and I will assure you this - the deeper you bury it, the greater the guarantee, that the above, imagined scenario, will come quite true, exactly as I have just depicted it.I simply wonder, can ANY ONE of you three ... even face up to the challenge? All you have to do, is admit (if it is the case) - that you cannot, because you do not have even one, single, close, gay friend. And that's fine, because that is what I figured.
It is your homework, though I will not presume to be the teacher who assigned it.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
When you see hate where it doesn't exist, it is usually a pre- existing condition. Obviously if people did try to kill you, it did pre-exist. The good ole boy syndrome is alive and well. Maybe you should get counseling. Blaming Christianity because of some scum-bags is rather ridiculous, don't you think?
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
I dunno ... I kinda took this whole thread, as evidence to the contrary.
Basstian
In Search
My heart was broke when that young man the same age as my sons was beat and killed in wyoming.
1 He could have been my son.
2 My sons could have been his killers.
We can be so quick to Quote
Let He who is without sin cast the first stone and yet ignore the fact that the woman was not without sin.
Jesus didnt look up from what he was writing and tell her that her lifestyle choice was ok.
SO many little details are left out of that story...
where is the man she was caught with why wasnt he being accused...
why wasnt he there defending his love for her he just drops out of the picture
then the crowd drops out of the picture
then its just one sinner and one Saviour.
Take your partner of whatever gender out of the picture.
Take the Crowd of accusers be they Christians or Gay Rights activists out of the picture.
Now realize Jesus is asking you the same thing he asked that day.... where are your accusers (answer is gone)
Seconds away from a hate crime only one man stood between the crowd that would gladly have picked up fist size rocks and thrown hundreds until just the right one struck her temple or crushed her skull ending the relentless torture the crowd was feeding on.
Jesus looked and said.... Than neither do I accuse you Go and sin no more.
You have put me in this thread in the same situation ...
Not a single Christian on this message board has a right to "cast a stone"
Now where are your accusers?
Jesus is willing to Save any of us just as He did that woman.
But I dont think He would leave off the line most of us dont want to hear.
Go and Sin no more
Please dont ask me to think my Lord and Saviour suffered and died on that cross so I can choose whatever lifestyle I want.
I cant erase books and verses out of the Bible that name my sin sin.
My faith/religion is based on the hearing of that word and without that faith in His word I am told its impossible to please Him.
You are a creature of choice He made you in His image to have this wonderful ability to choose. That does not make every choice the right one.
With Love
Basstian
1 He could have been my son.
2 My sons could have been his killers.
We can be so quick to Quote
Let He who is without sin cast the first stone and yet ignore the fact that the woman was not without sin.
Jesus didnt look up from what he was writing and tell her that her lifestyle choice was ok.
SO many little details are left out of that story...
where is the man she was caught with why wasnt he being accused...
why wasnt he there defending his love for her he just drops out of the picture
then the crowd drops out of the picture
then its just one sinner and one Saviour.
Take your partner of whatever gender out of the picture.
Take the Crowd of accusers be they Christians or Gay Rights activists out of the picture.
Now realize Jesus is asking you the same thing he asked that day.... where are your accusers (answer is gone)
Seconds away from a hate crime only one man stood between the crowd that would gladly have picked up fist size rocks and thrown hundreds until just the right one struck her temple or crushed her skull ending the relentless torture the crowd was feeding on.
Jesus looked and said.... Than neither do I accuse you Go and sin no more.
You have put me in this thread in the same situation ...
Not a single Christian on this message board has a right to "cast a stone"
Now where are your accusers?
Jesus is willing to Save any of us just as He did that woman.
But I dont think He would leave off the line most of us dont want to hear.
Go and Sin no more
Please dont ask me to think my Lord and Saviour suffered and died on that cross so I can choose whatever lifestyle I want.
I cant erase books and verses out of the Bible that name my sin sin.
My faith/religion is based on the hearing of that word and without that faith in His word I am told its impossible to please Him.
You are a creature of choice He made you in His image to have this wonderful ability to choose. That does not make every choice the right one.
With Love
Basstian
pattimax
Somewhat returning
I didn't see this before...
-- Since I have moved to Kentucky last year I only know a few gay people and while they are very nice, they are not close friends. But, where I was raised, West Palm Beach, FL, I had quite a few gay friends. During my inter faith days, I was particularly close with a minister and he performed my marriage ceremony. (I'm divorced now, unrelated, I didn't even think about becoming a Christian until after my divorce.)
Well, I was good friends with him before a Christian, so that probably doesn't count. Maybe if we were still in the same town, we would probably still be friends, but we would no longer run in the same circles.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
This is something quite positive. Thank you for sharing that!
bob x
Well-Known Member
"Blaming Christianity because of some scum-bags is rather ridiculous, don't you think?"
It was Christianity which MADE them scum-bags.
The one who held me at gunpoint favored me with a sermon on hell-fire, and shouted at me to stay away from his kids: he thought homosexuality was the same as pedophilia because his preacher told him so (and I see that this disgusting slander is repeated by "good Christians" on this board, too).
The group who left me unconscious on the railroad tracks were from the Family, on one of their political campaigns against an ordinance to give us what they called "special rights", like the right to keep our jobs if we do the work or keep our apartments if we pay the rent.
It was Christianity which MADE them scum-bags.
The one who held me at gunpoint favored me with a sermon on hell-fire, and shouted at me to stay away from his kids: he thought homosexuality was the same as pedophilia because his preacher told him so (and I see that this disgusting slander is repeated by "good Christians" on this board, too).
The group who left me unconscious on the railroad tracks were from the Family, on one of their political campaigns against an ordinance to give us what they called "special rights", like the right to keep our jobs if we do the work or keep our apartments if we pay the rent.
bob x
Well-Known Member
"You are a creature of choice He made you in His image to have this wonderful ability to choose. That does not make every choice the right one. "
I did not get a choice about what I would see as beauty, or what would fill my heart with love.
My choice is whether to take joy in the gifts my creator has blessed me with, or to spit in my creator's face as the "good Christians" think I should.
I did not get a choice about what I would see as beauty, or what would fill my heart with love.
My choice is whether to take joy in the gifts my creator has blessed me with, or to spit in my creator's face as the "good Christians" think I should.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Naw it was a brand of Christianity that made them intolerant.
There are a number of denominations of Christianity that openly accept gays. There are a number of denominations that go with the 'hate the sin, love the sinner scenario'. There are a number of denominations that preach the fire and brimstone, that are percolators which create those attitudes which turn into hate crimes...be it intentional or not.
Each in their own way has their interpretation of biblical justification for their actions....and in their own way has a goal of assisting people reach salvation.
To many on the receiving end it doesn't appear that way as the means and methods are quite medieval, it is a shame. The WWJD thought seems not to come up in this regard.
Christianity has its foibles, how one denomination can require celibacy yet tolerate and cover up criminal activity is beyond me. How one can preach love, yet hate is confusing. How one can blame other religions for blindly following their religious teachers and warped interpretations and condemn the whole religion for it, despite the fact that they are doing the same is downright extraordinary.
There are a number of denominations of Christianity that openly accept gays. There are a number of denominations that go with the 'hate the sin, love the sinner scenario'. There are a number of denominations that preach the fire and brimstone, that are percolators which create those attitudes which turn into hate crimes...be it intentional or not.
Each in their own way has their interpretation of biblical justification for their actions....and in their own way has a goal of assisting people reach salvation.
To many on the receiving end it doesn't appear that way as the means and methods are quite medieval, it is a shame. The WWJD thought seems not to come up in this regard.
Christianity has its foibles, how one denomination can require celibacy yet tolerate and cover up criminal activity is beyond me. How one can preach love, yet hate is confusing. How one can blame other religions for blindly following their religious teachers and warped interpretations and condemn the whole religion for it, despite the fact that they are doing the same is downright extraordinary.
bob x
Well-Known Member
The police are generally on the side of the Christians. From the railroad tracks I was taken to jail. My story was not believed, but luckily one of the good Christians stole my credit card and used it, while I was still locked up, so I had some evidence for my version of events. There was, of course, no followup.
I fight back in every way I know how. I resent you calling me a "whiner".
"Inflammatory"? I call evil evil, whether you want to hear it or not. I will not put up with "love the sinner, hate the sin" gamesmanship: I know it for what it really is.
BlaznFattyz
Well-Known Member
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one has to also realize that it is not always the denomination, but also the social network and culture that a person is living in. You might have two groups of baptists, one in california and one in mississippi--both might emphasize baptism just the same, but the cultures of the areas and the social network that embodies race, class, and gender also have a dramatic affect on how people behave and perceive the world, which in turn affects what is being taught and accepted in the church.