Changing Sexual Orientation Is Possible, New Research Says

bob x said:
The police are generally on the side of the Christians. From the railroad tracks I was taken to jail. My story was not believed, but luckily one of the good Christians stole my credit card and used it, while I was still locked up, so I had some evidence for my version of events. There was, of course, no followup.

I fight back in every way I know how. I resent you calling me a "whiner".

"Inflammatory"? I call evil evil, whether you want to hear it or not. I will not put up with "love the sinner, hate the sin" gamesmanship: I know it for what it really is.
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You need a lawyer. And if you already have one, he needs to do more or maybe you should get a different one.

You don't know as much as you think you know.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
one has to also realize that it is not always the denomination, but also the social network and culture that a person is living in. You might have two groups of baptists, one in california and one in mississippi--both might emphasize baptism just the same, but the cultures of the areas and the social network that embodies race, class, and gender also have a dramatic affect on how people behave and perceive the world, which in turn affects what is being taught and accepted in the church.
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excellent point, isn't that though what eventually causes another division...when these varied groups get together at some national convention and find they can't agree?
 
bob x said:
"Inflammatory"? I call evil evil, whether you want to hear it or not. I will not put up with "love the sinner, hate the sin" gamesmanship: I know it for what it really is.
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Bob x, I agree,
I have always read you as a fair man, and hope you recieve the justice owed to you........

- c -
 
bob x said:
I fight back in every way I know how. I resent you calling me a "whiner".
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I can totally relate to this, bob x. From my position on the diamond, I do what I can, how I can. Authority figures of all kinds rankle me, and I know they wield a different kind of power than I do--more physical, more brute, more sanctioned by society.

Yet challenging them is only one way of approaching the problem. That I am physically overpowered by patriarchy, even 'legally' repressed by institutionalized ignorance doesn't make me powerless. And certainly I don't gain anything from perpetuating a state of victim-hood.

For our kind, we do what we can, where we can, however we can. We are strong and have put up with a lot of sith in our lives... forums like this are one safe place (and only one among several, many places) where our voices can be heard. Sometimes we have to shout a bit, and true there is resistance,

but in the end I feel heard... which is what I am looking for, I think.

(thinking out loud),
Pathless
 
pattimax said:
How is bashing Christ (and His followers) fair?
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Namaste Pattimax,

Bashing, interesting choice of words when taken in context with his story.

If everything he has said is correct. Then I would think you would agree these folks acted in a completely unChristianlike manner. And that the fact that they took their actions to be in compliance with what they heard from their religious leader, if these consequences are not condoned by said leader that their words need to be tempered so as it not to happen again.

I'm reminded of the bumper sticker which reads, "Jesus save me from your followers", or Gandhi's "I [SIZE=-1] like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.[/SIZE]" it is upto us to do something about that.

Or folks will continue the perception that these are appropriate Christian actions and the bashing will not only continue, but have justification.
 
pattimax said:
How is bashing Christ (and His followers) fair?
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Hi, Pattimax,

Did I miss something? As an outside witness sees,where is the bashing?
I am only aware bob x, himself was bashed down by the railroad tracks, and angry about injustice, as anyone would be....... does it matter he is homosexual, does it matter his offenders were christian? Both and all are human beings......... as you said yourself, it was an "awful" thing to happen. And then it all became somewhat christian political.........

You know I never could accept " Blessed are the meek" .......

peace - c -
 
Ciel said:
Hi, Pattimax,

Did I miss something? As an outside witness sees,where is the bashing?
I am only aware bob x, himself was bashed down by the railroad tracks, and angry about injustice, as anyone would be.......
You know I never could accept " Blessed are the meek" .......

peace - c -
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From Merriam Webster:
bash : to attack physically or verbally <media bashing> <celebrity bashing>

I have also heard that "meekness" is definitely not weakness, it is the awareness that you can't do it on your own and that you need the Lord.
 
Pathless said:
pattimaximus! :) :D

One could ask the same question about the Other in this situation:

"How is bashing homosexuals fair?"​
WWJD?,
Pathless
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Lost!:) :D

I suppose if there was a homosexual board... and anyways I was commenting on Ciel's comment about what a fair-minded person he was.

Jesus would sacrifice himself. (Oh, he already did.)

Karen
 
Seems to me I've seen and read all of this sort of ugliness and fear-fed smashing and bashing before, here, elsewhere, on TV, at the Stonewall, etc.

Bobx...I too am ashamed for fellow Christians who are inclined to make and take judgements precipitously, and also for those who would slap a label on a person and then cram them into metaphorical boxes just to make their life and opinions easier to understand and live with. And then if they just cannot make the effort to do any of the above to physically assault fellow human beings on railroad tracks or in a field in Wyoming. Go after these animals and do it legally. G-d is on your side in this.

The truth is that this issue a fountainhead of violence... verbal, physical, societal, judicial, theological, and random violence. The Episcopal/ Anglican community is about to tear itself in half in New Orleans this week because of it; and, all because human sexuality and gender is more spectral in reality and nature rather than categorizable and suited for packaging into neatly tied up boxes...as most human beings are conditioned to try and make it so for their conveniences.

Cultural anthropologists have told us over and over that these phenotypes of the human race have always been with the rest of us. Geneticists, since the 80's have confirmed this and have repeatedly enlightened us to the fact that these phenotypes are genotypical in origin, for the most part. Conversion to "normality" is not an option, unless one's favorite radio show is Let's Pretend. Individual and societal acceptance of "what is and will be" is the ONLY answer to these dilemmas.

The greatest underlying fear is that G-d isn't really the old white guy with a beard or the younger white guy on a wooden cross, but likely conforms with the research of theologians who have a grounding in cultural anthropology, and indigenous folk lore and mythology...the shapeshifting androgyne who Creates all things in the Universe out of nothingness.

Sorry If this bends a few of you out of shape, but IMHO...you had it coming.

flow....:rolleyes:
 
pattimax said:
... and anyways I was commenting on Ciel's comment about what a fair-minded person he was.

Karen
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Pattimax,

I have always read you as a fair minded person too.

Am I so wrong to see fair minds in others?

Do you detect meekness or weakness in my words?

Or might they resonate with your Lord?

- c -
 
You need a lawyer.
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I AM a lawyer.
You don't know as much as you think you know.
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Sorry, you are the one who really has no clue how these things work.
How is bashing Christ (and His followers) fair?
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There are two very different pictures of who "Christ" was, and what he taught, in the New Testament. There is the synoptic Christ, who taught a morality of "reciprocity", based on the principle of treating others as if they were people like yourself (which they are). Then there is the Christ in the Pauline epistles and the gospel of John, whose morality is based on "faith" (believe the right things about him) and "faction membership" (join the in-group fellowship). The latter has always been dominant. An in-group, of course, needs an out-group to define itself against: traditionally, this role was played by the Jews (because they don't believe), but since Auschwitz, that has become unfashionable (Christians leave it to the Muslims to define themselves by murderous hatred of the Jews), so gay is the new Jewish. Christians believe, by an act of "faith", absurd things about us, starting with the notion that we "choose" what we find sexually attractive, because it is impossible for us to share that belief (we know, as directly as Descartes knew cogito ergo sum, that it just isn't so), and so we can be demonized as the people who just won't believe.
 
bob x said:
There is the synoptic Christ, who taught a morality of "reciprocity", based on the principle of treating others as if they were people like yourself (which they are)
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I am sorry for your hang-ups.

This is the internet, you can tell me that you are the queen of England. The fact remains you are spinning your wheels if you are trying to blame Christianity for this crime. People who commit crimes are criminals.
 
When we fight the war of words, even the war on ideas, we sometimes forget the battle that goes on in our hearts ... and why.

We have only way to win.

~andrew
 
andrew x. Standing up for yourself is a very difficult thing for a lot of us to do. Sometimes I find it easier to defend someone elses rights than my own. (not a lawyer, just a helpful unionist a work). But baby, only you know the consequences and if the reactions are going to be worth your trouble. Dont listen to all the rubbish about being homosexual (oh yeah, lets cure you of this terrible affliction) you are the wonderful person that you are and I am grateful to have been able to read your thoughts and interact with you from time to time. take care. love the grey


And to the rest of you. BACK OFF!!!!!!!
 
AndrewX said:
When we fight the war of words, even the war on ideas, we sometimes forget the battle that goes on in our hearts ... and why.

We have only way to win.

~andrew
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Therefore is it not better to first place peace in our hearts and then words follow of their own accord..................

- c -
 
u know, it bothers me that some members are booted for "offending others" with their cut and pasting yet some members can constantly and regularly make offensive posts informing us how wrong it is to be queer... mmm...

how does that work again?

oh I see, it's done in a clever way... they won't openly come out (pardon the pun) and say "I hate queers", but "I'm a christian, and Jesus does"....

I would laugh if it wasn't so crappy....

Blazn... get your leather trousers out of the closet and get yourself down to the gay bar...methinks a good rogering is what's missing in your life...
 
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