human stupidity- the curse of mankind

Francis king

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why is it that people are so stupid? they have masters degrees, but get taken for a ride by conmen, they devote years of their lives studying religion to become more ignorant and less tolerant than before...

I have been reading another post about- how we must become like children to enter heaven, and how important beginners mind is, and yet...

this just doesn't make any sense to me.

If there is a God, and he really is the most powerful being in the universe, why would this powerful being admire our idiocy? why would this great being seek to turn us into cretins?

I have been thinking of Valhalla... when the warrior went to Valhalla, only the bravest and strongest were allowed in... it didn't matter if u swore, or a thief, what mattered was ur bravery in battle, the victories, the glory...

the Gods of Valhalla did not admire stupidity.

I think of folk tales, where the Gods make mortals take tests of courage, of bravery, of intelligence, and yet-

todays religious appear not to value intelligence. Why is this?

Is it because ppl are too eager to please others, don't want to cause bad feeling by crowing about their accomplishments, seek to make themselves appear small and weak and defenceless because they think thats what God wants?

I think people who think along these lines are fools. And are doubly fools to think the Gods respect their faux naiveity and self effacement.

Why are we, supposedly educated and civilised people so desperate to be morons? Why are we so eager to adopt hair shirts and round shoulders?

I wouldn't mind if the people who told us to behave this way behaved in the same way, but they don't. The people who tell us to be morons to fit into Gods plan are usually "gurus"; I don't notice many humble gurus... unless it's faux humility...

human stupidity is the curse of mankind.
 

fourgrtkidos

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I do not know what the other post or thread is....... however,

Being childlike does not equate to being stupid.

Childlike is: open minded, willing and eager to learn, trusting, quick to forgive, fast to make friends and to love.
Young children love equally and easily. They aren't attached to earthly posessions, status or accomplishment. Which makes it easier for them to see truth and fairness.

Do you have any children? If you do, do you remember how just and quick a very small child is to see inconsistancies?

They learn ignorance, intolerance, legalism, status, wealth, desire to accumulate possessions, proudness, boasting and hatred from us big folks, later........
 

taijasi

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OMG, there is enough to "hmmmm" on (to Ponder on) here ... for weeks.

Thank you, fourgrtkidos! :)
 

Neemai

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I wouldn't mind if the people who told us to behave this way behaved in the same way, but they don't. The people who tell us to be morons to fit into Gods plan are usually "gurus"; I don't notice many humble gurus... unless it's faux humility...

A guru isn't worth much without humility. From my experience not everyone is bogus, it's just that the non-bogus gurus are in the minority. Don't let the bogie's run you down man.

Hare Ram

...Neemai :)
 

Snoopy

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so francis, are you asking for more tolerance from people?

s.
 

wil

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Re: human stupidity- the blessing of mankind

Re: human stupidity- the blessing of mankind

Hate to play the devil's advocate....that's a lie, but you knew that.

Can you imagine what not being stupid gets you?

Stupidity allows me to make mistakes....and then learn from them. Now you may say many of us are too stupid to learn from our mistakes...and I agree...but we all catch on eventually.

Omnipotent G!d....hmmmm do I make perfect humans and have everything done? Let's look at cars or toasters or anything man makes...it constantly has to be updated, retooled, improved....as it wasn't made perfect for all situations the first time....and even the perfect for one situation won't be perfect for the next.

G!d created a system whereby human's have to live with their mistakes, learn from their stupidity and improve or get recycled over time. But as we progress thru our life or lives we take what we've learned and steadily grow from it...or we don't...but often we can grow from learning from others mistakes...

can a car? or a toaster? or anything man has made to date?

pretty good stuff.

revel in your stupidity francis, thank G!d for it!
 

flowperson

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Hi...I can identify with this subject. Being aware and innocent is not being stupid. Being observant and silent until the appropriate time for comment is definitely not being stupid. One of my favorite gnostic-source sayings of Jesus is that "it is not what goes into your mouth which will pollute you, but what comes out of it".

With all that in mind, here's a pamphlet written on this subject by one of the top half dozen mathematicians of his era. Enjoy !

flow....:rolleyes:

http://www.qualight.com/stress/hello.htm
 

Tao_Equus

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Nice thread Francis and so closely related to one I came here to start that I need not bother.

I have the past few evenings been going through some films and documentaries regarding Richard Dawkins and his work. I myself have in the past here downplayed the relevance of what Dawkins has to say on religion but recently the few gossamer threads of my own spirituality have begun to snap and I find Dawkins position ever more attractive.

Religion is stupidity. It is the acceptance on faith alone of something which has no good cause to be unprovable. We think of a child who believes in Santa Claus as sweetly naive yet think it entirely rational to believe in God. God is the the grown ups Santa, even portrayed similarly in iconography, and is embraced as a surrogate for truth. Nothing surely is more valuable than truth. Adopting the stupidity of faith relegates truth and creates excuses for so many evils I wont even begin to list them. The benefits of an embraced stupidity may be comforting but they are still no better than self deception.

Mr Dawkins makes the case for religion being stupidity much better than I ever could and his scientific premises for reaching such a conclusion do not invoke controversial ideas but plain common sense. For those who doubt that you can find several films featuring him at the following link and specifically the one titled "
Richard Dawkins Discusses God, Faith and Why Religion is Bad"

TV Links



Stupidity of a religious nature is far from benign for many reasons and to the extent that it is only superseded by greed in being the cause of all the madness we see in the world today. There is absolutely not one single shred of incontrovertible evidence for the existence of God. Every miracle, every supposed proof is either (in 99.99% of cases) alternatively explainable or (in 0.01% of cases) defies explanation from the available facts known. This is not proof. Using the term "I have Faith" is a cop out, faux-logic. I believe only logic can keep mankind alive much longer. Real logic, a logic that denies the existence of an omniscient God.

For those of you that know me well enough to know of my love of Gaia Theory let me make it clear that I have not thrown out the baby with the bathwater. All along I have considered, and stated, that the explanation for the 'conciousness' of Gaia is not some omnipotent entity that rationalises in human terms (the essence of every religion of note). I still believe in the life force of Gaia but I see it more as a law of nature, like gravity, than a conciousness of free will. I believe every nano-particle in the multiverse is somehow interconnected but I cannot and will not ascribe divinity to this. And no religion does either. All they do is ascribe divinity to their own ideas.

So I may yet become an evangelist. An evangelical atheist. There are far too few in this mad mad world of ours.

Tao
 

flowperson

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Tao...my friend. You are of course entitled to your opinions and beliefs as are the rest of us.

My opinion of Dawkins as a brilliant Physicist, in the classical sense, agreees with your overall opinion of him. But there is a solid set of reasons supporting the efficacy of faith and belief in a universe of uncertainty, and in this sense he is mistaken. There is reason to believe, supported by research, that positive thinking, feelings, and actions will lead to collective positive outcomes more often than not. Yes, it is my life experience and belief that...in some ways, mind does take precedence over matter in universal hierarchies.

While I agree with you and Dawkins that the events of the universe are essentially random and happenstance, intelligent choice and will have influences upon how these events interact with the human species over time. Universal activities are random and chaotic by their nature. Intelligent choice and action on many levels of reality also have a hand in what is and what will be IMHO.

flow....;)
 

Ciel

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why is it that people are so stupid? they have masters degrees, but get taken for a ride by conmen, they devote years of their lives studying religion to become more ignorant and less tolerant than before...

I have been reading another post about- how we must become like children to enter heaven, and how important beginners mind is, and yet...

this just doesn't make any sense to me.

If there is a God, and he really is the most powerful being in the universe, why would this powerful being admire our idiocy? why would this great being seek to turn us into cretins?

I have been thinking of Valhalla... when the warrior went to Valhalla, only the bravest and strongest were allowed in... it didn't matter if u swore, or a thief, what mattered was ur bravery in battle, the victories, the glory...

the Gods of Valhalla did not admire stupidity.

I think of folk tales, where the Gods make mortals take tests of courage, of bravery, of intelligence, and yet-

todays religious appear not to value intelligence. Why is this?

Is it because ppl are too eager to please others, don't want to cause bad feeling by crowing about their accomplishments, seek to make themselves appear small and weak and defenceless because they think thats what God wants?

I think people who think along these lines are fools. And are doubly fools to think the Gods respect their faux naiveity and self effacement.

Why are we, supposedly educated and civilised people so desperate to be morons? Why are we so eager to adopt hair shirts and round shoulders?

I wouldn't mind if the people who told us to behave this way behaved in the same way, but they don't. The people who tell us to be morons to fit into Gods plan are usually "gurus"; I don't notice many humble gurus... unless it's faux humility...

human stupidity is the curse of mankind.

Francis,

This may blow a few fuses for some ................ YES ........... I agree.

- c -
 

Tao_Equus

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There is reason to believe, supported by research, that positive thinking, feelings, and actions will lead to collective positive outcomes more often than not.

.... intelligent choice and will have influences upon how these events interact with the human species over time. .... Intelligent choice and action on many levels of reality also have a hand in what is and what will be IMHO.

Hi Flow and thx :)

I agree with you close to 100% but do not believe one has to invoke a God, creator or any such entity for all that to be true. The 'supernatural' is only that which we cannot explain yet. I am left recently with no alternative but to believe all notions of God are nothing more than an innate need to be in control. Not as a result of revisiting Dawkins but as an evolution in no small part aided by my time reading on CR.

I hoped at some point to find something that would convince me that my life had some longevity and purpose beyond the mortal toil. Such a hope I now see to be vain, meaningless and a distraction from the only thing that comes close to being real, the pursuit of truth.Within the bounds of our current scope of knowledge there is no need to call into existence any God to explain the how and why of anything. Science either provides direct and unequivocal answers or hints strongly at as yet not so well understood functions of reality to explain everything.

Down the ages theologians have constantly moved the goalposts to try and fit God into the picture for one purpose and one purpose alone that I can see. To keep the masses coming through the ornate arches and paying to be brainwashed with nonsense. A few people here and there, like some we find on CR, that honestly try think about what they believe do not constitute the masses who give sanction to the mass murderers we call our leaders. But it is the majority of so called religious people who do indeed give, and give, and give citing their belief in God as giving them authority to murder by proxy. Thus as any religion has such tenuous claim to any higher morality or authority or truth, and that they cause such terror and deprivation I see it better than man evolve so he only accepts the truth that can be proven. Religion is a distraction from truth and is as a result too dangerous to tolerate any longer. We need real truth now!! If I could be granted one wish it would be to banish the notion of religious belief from the human condition. And I believe the world would instantly be a much more peaceful place for it. Then make National Service mandatory for everyone, but with a difference... everyone must do 2 years study in a different country. No religion and everyone realising other cultures are not scary.... wow what a utopia!!

Tao
 
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Life is too short to worry about other people being stupid. Simpletons are the scourge of the intelligent, and vice versa. Have a cuppa tea.

Chris
 

flowperson

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Tao...You are right of course. What we are all dealing with these days are institutions and dogmas that have existed for a very long time in most religions, and have not yet realized the nature of what is to come. A good example are the herds of Evangelical Christians who are crowding into Israel to herald the impending second coming of the Messiah. Well maybe, but I heard a feature this morning on National Public Radio in which several of the Israelis interviewed thought and felt that the gesture was nice, but a little crazy from their standpoint.

It's going to take a lot of time to convert the image of the bearded white guy in the clouds sticking out his finger and giving the spark of life to the Adam, into a realization, which is at the roots of Judaism, into the concept of a powerful and invisible loving intelligence, which guides our choices towards life and not death, to be more suitable to our future needs. The trouble is, humans are conditioned to believe in images and abstract representations to represent that which is ineffable, sublime , and unfathomable. It's difficult to overcome 100,000 years or so of conditioned habits.

All of these concepts are in the sacred histories of most cultures. And so I still believe that we need to go back to the past to get to our futures. You don't even begin to change thousands of years of fundamentalist and orthodox beliefs overnight, but IMHO they are, as you pointed out, very incompatible with the futures that we are already entering.

As I've mentioned to Thomas several times in our discussions, I have hopes that the Catholic Church, because of its conscious choices over the years to participate in the discovery and development of basic science principles and applied technologies, would lead the way in this since they are so highly involved now with the welfare of indigenous cultures. I had a lot of hope for that to come to pass when Pope John Paul II was around. But these days it's rather more murky due to the arch conservatism of Pope Benedict. Only time will tell, and I'm afraid my friend that neither you or I will be around to witness the outcomes.

But we can still plan in our own feeble ways. Or as I like to say, "people plan, and G-d laughs". But there I go again, anthropomorphizing the ineffable and sublime.

flow....:rolleyes:
 

Ahanu

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Re: human stupidity- the blessing of mankind

revel in your stupidity francis, thank G!d for it!

That cracked me up!

. . .an unexpectedly postive approach to human stupidity:rolleyes:
 

cyberpi

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I don't think it is the possession of resources or gifts of strength, beauty, or intelligence that makes a person great... but in what is done with what a person has. If a person's goal is to be weaker, uglier, dumber, or poorer... perhaps seeking the consideration given to frailty, the innocence of inaction, the bliss of ignorance, or the charity showered on the poor,... then I imagine that person in the parable of the person who was given a talent but then burried it.
 

wil

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I agree with you close to 100% but do not believe one has to invoke a God, creator or any such entity for all that to be true. The 'supernatural' is only that which we cannot explain yet. I am left recently with no alternative but to believe all notions of God are nothing more than an innate need to be in control...... I see it better than man evolve so he only accepts the truth that can be proven. Religion is a distraction from truth and is as a result too dangerous to tolerate any longer. We need real truth now!!
While religions have their woas, have they done no good??

Now lets step back, lets say that in a few millenia science discovers that their is an 'affect' in the ethers, between the molecules of everything, a space, a dimension, and when one accesses that dimension with thought, the dimension morphs and changes the physicality around it. And that this is affected by all matter in total...ie status quo tends to have a strong hold, rocks be rocks, get to the core turn molten and spit back up, plants beget plants etc...but it is also affected by the thought when attached to extreme emotions of love or caring or compassion or that dying breath, that willingness to go on at all costs....those thoughts that come out with a certain impetus or certainty cause this affect to effect the physicality around it despite the common consciousness.

Now what if we called this scientific discovery G!d, and discovered that with faith and prayer/thought we set things in motion which cause miracles...but now they are no longer miracles, they are just science...but we discover that thousands of years ago folks had this same notion but utilized it with their primitive terms as the technology was not yet around to call it science...

But since we banned religion...for something we can prove....we missed out on Mother Theresas and Gandhis and the millions of others that strive to assist the world in shelters, soup lines, hospitals. Isn't that like not funding Columbus because he had no proof? Like saying no to Kennedy on a moon launch?

Can't we do both?
 
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