money

M

mee

Guest
most people on here will be aware of the often misquoted bible verse.

1 timothy 6;9-10


when people mention this verse they say that money is the root of alsorts of injurious things . they miss out saying that it is the LOVE of money


but it is not money that is bad it is the LOVE of money that is bad .

here is a link for reading

The Love of Money—Is It Really Harmful?
We all need money to survive. But how can you keep it from becoming an all-consuming obsession?
 
I hate money as it turns us into slaves and makes our lives ****. :)

I am limited to what I can do by the amount of money I have... I am limited to the amount of success, education, health, class... (communism is nearly where the world should be... Nearly.) I am divded because of my material assets... Basically life... we get distorted we NEED money! We NEED as much as we can... we NEED to pay bills, taxes, mortgages.... I really hate money, I don't like to hate, but sadly not perfect and the one and only thing I hate is this. :D

Mee... Your wrong, you do not need freaking money to survive... How the hell do all the other animals on this planet survive? I don't see them at the ATM.... We do not need money, and we most certainly do not need it to survive... we "need" money to live this make believe life and have either this depressed life of trying so hard to gain what we do not have and will never have, or we have this life of trying to pay back loans and debts and struggling forgetting our beautiful gift of life just to try and make good on these loans... Or we live consumed and swimming in money and do not share it with everyone else because we're so full of ourselves.

Life is too short and precious to be chained to material gain and money :|

my opinion. And the more I think of this the more I have my inner struggle... I would happily vanish into the wild's away from civilsation leaving behind my massive of debts.... But, I love my partner more than myself, and that is the sole reason I stay within society.....
 
Oompa Loompa, doompety doo...
I've got another puzzle for you.
Oompa Loompa, doompety dee.
If you are wise, you'll listen to me.

Who do you blame when your kid is a, brat?
Pampered and spoiled like a siamese, cat?
Blaming the kids is a lie and a, shame.
You know exactly who's, to, blame.
The mother and the father...

Oompa Loompa, doompety da.
If you're not spoiled then you will go far.
You will live in happiness too.
Like the, Oompa, Loompa doompety do..
 
The second reason given about `separating ourselves from those who commercialize religion' alluded to the real reason for the Society's change in literature distribution. Just one month before the new policy was announced, the Society watched how the Supreme Court ruled in California Board of Equalization vs. Jimmy Swaggart Ministries. California wanted to assess sales taxes on the sale of books and tapes and other items by Swaggart's ministry. The Watch Tower Society filed amicus curiae (a friend of the court legal brief) in support of Swaggart's position, that a religious organization should be exempt from such taxation. On Jan. 17, 1990, just a little over a month before the Society's change in policy, the Supreme Court ruled against Swaggart and permitted taxation. The Society's new policy avoided any liability for taxation by taking the financial transaction out of the picture (donations cannot be taxed).
The new policy was primarily a tax dodge. The side benefit to the Watchtower was that they received monies TWICE for the items, if all went as planned: Perhaps a dollar or two for a small book when you picked up the literature from the Kingdom Hall, and if you received a donation for the book from the householder, you were required to bring this back to the Hall and deposit it as well. (Hmmm..., something's fishy!)









Good news....for the Watchtower!!
 
What is fishy about giving the donation to the kingdom hall? If you didn't that would be theft. :)

When it comes to money, the JW are the least out of my experience which attempt to milk it... I have an entire library at my home of JW litreature... I haven't paid a single penny for that.... Hard backs, paper backs, magazines, bible and so on... Free.... Services that are chargable in most religions are free in the JW....
 
Alex P said:
I hate money as it turns us into slaves and makes our lives ****. :)

I am limited to what I can do by the amount of money I have... I am limited to the amount of success, education, health, class... (communism is nearly where the world should be... Nearly.) I am divded because of my material assets... Basically life... we get distorted we NEED money! We NEED as much as we can... we NEED to pay bills, taxes, mortgages.... I really hate money, I don't like to hate, but sadly not perfect and the one and only thing I hate is this. :D

Mee... Your wrong, you do not need freaking money to survive... How the hell do all the other animals on this planet survive? I don't see them at the ATM.... We do not need money, and we most certainly do not need it to survive... we "need" money to live this make believe life and have either this depressed life of trying so hard to gain what we do not have and will never have, or we have this life of trying to pay back loans and debts and struggling forgetting our beautiful gift of life just to try and make good on these loans... Or we live consumed and swimming in money and do not share it with everyone else because we're so full of ourselves.

Life is too short and precious to be chained to material gain and money :|

my opinion. And the more I think of this the more I have my inner struggle... I would happily vanish into the wild's away from civilsation leaving behind my massive of debts.... But, I love my partner more than myself, and that is the sole reason I stay within society.....
Click to expand...
yes i agree, this old system is not how it is supposed to be, but as you and i know humans did not give Jehovah the chance to show us just how things should be , the first couple had to go and do it there way :( but better things are on there way:)
 
Did not Judas Iscariot betray his best friend, the Lord Jesus Christ, into the hands of murderers for thirty pieces of silver?

Yes, and the Bible says of this money lover: "He was a thief and had the money-box and used to carry off the monies put in it." (John 12:6)
What a disastrous end overtook Judas! How different it could have been had he been "free of the love of money"!
 
Love of money and a desire for possessions are not new; nor is the Bible silent about them, as if they were some recent phenomena. They are very old.

In the Law, God instructed the Israelites: "You must not desire your fellowman’s house . . . nor anything that belongs to your fellowman."—Exodus 20:17.
 
Hi Mee —

mee said:
Did not Judas Iscariot betray his best friend, the Lord Jesus Christ, into the hands of murderers for thirty pieces of silver?
Click to expand...

Indeed so ... but something of interest that isn't contained in Scripture.

30 pieces of silver was the legal value of a slave, so if you killed someone's slave, that's the fee the court would award. The symbolism is rich here ... Jesus is worth no more than a slave, who doesn't really count as 'human' in the eyes of the state, but the property of his or her owner.

It's also generally agreed that the real motive of Judas' actions was not money ... certainly, if money was your thing, then you wouldn't have become a disciples of Jesus.

Thomas
 
It's so odd when you really think about it. Money is an idea. We get things and give things because we all agree on a concept- that some coin or piece of linen is worth this or that. Credit is even more laughable. The banks don't actually have the gold to back up the money they say they have. And they know I don't have enough money to pay for the things I need/want. So I borrow an idea from the banks (credit)- basically, nothing but an idea and a promise- to pay them back something they never had to begin with.

Even when all money was backed by gold-- or was gold-- why is gold worth so much? We can't eat gold, we can't make it into shelter, it's not even entertaining.

We are an odd species...

I dream of a world where people are not lazy and everyone pursues one or two passions that they have- something they are good at and can give back to humanity. And their needs are met by others doing their best to give back in the ways they can best do it. My husband would go out building people houses when they needed a house, and people would take only what they really needed to have their family sheltered. I would go out and teach in the university and write and craft little things and give it all away freely. And we'd know that we could walk into the local store or CSA and get food as needed, that someone would give us some land for a house, that we could go get what we need off the car lot to get where we need to go. The thing is... people need to get over their greed, their laziness, and their class-based arrogance (I have more than the Jones')...

Until then, we continue to be rife with inequality and remain an odd species indeed.
 
path_of_one said:
My husband would go out building people houses when they needed a house, and people would take only what they really needed to have their family sheltered. I would go out and teach in the university and write and craft little things and give it all away freely. And we'd know that we could walk into the local store or CSA and get food as needed, that someone would give us some land for a house, that we could go get what we need off the car lot to get where we need to go.
Click to expand...

Currency is a way more convenient ways of dealing with market value issues. Also, it helps operationalize tax debt, which is hard tro do with undocumented trades. That's why what you are proposing is illegal. :)

I think the problem is not with money per se, but the attitude people have about their use of it.
 
Thomas said:
Hi Mee —



Indeed so ... but something of interest that isn't contained in Scripture.

30 pieces of silver was the legal value of a slave, so if you killed someone's slave, that's the fee the court would award. The symbolism is rich here ... Jesus is worth no more than a slave, who doesn't really count as 'human' in the eyes of the state, but the property of his or her owner.

It's also generally agreed that the real motive of Judas' actions was not money ... certainly, if money was your thing, then you wouldn't have become a disciples of Jesus.

Thomas
Click to expand...
well we know what the bible says about those who keep thinking and looking longing at things when they shouldnt ,eventually it gives birth to sin .


Judas would have started off ok as a disciple ,but he went bad didnt he .
 
mee said:
well we know what the bible says about those who keep thinking and looking longing at things when they shouldnt ,eventually it gives birth to sin .


Judas would have started off ok as a disciple ,but he went bad didnt he .
Click to expand...
Without Judas where would we be, mee?
 
No, sorry I mean, "where would we be without Judas?" "where would we be without mary?" "where would we be without Moses?" "Where would we be without Adam?" We would simply be in the same place, but with different people in the very same role....

So what I meant is if it wasn't Judas, it would have simply been another.
 
Alex P said:
No, sorry I mean, "where would we be without Judas?" "where would we be without mary?" "where would we be without Moses?" "Where would we be without Adam?" We would simply be in the same place, but with different people in the very same role....

So what I meant is if it wasn't Judas, it would have simply been another.
Click to expand...
So in my mind Judas should have been praised for taking the dipped bread and performing his duty, rather than Jesus having to get involved in one discussion after another trying to convince a desciple to do what was required.

But on to another interesting twist, are you saying if not Moses someone would have filled that bill, also Mary, Adam....keep going Krishna, Mohamed, Bush?? Interesting predestination contemplation, that if one doesn't fill the role as required someone will step up...

But back to Judas and 30 pieces of silver, and money...F(fe)RNs we have over here. Federal Reserve Notes, used to be backed by Gold, used to be backed by silver, used to be exchangeable for lawful money...but now all we have left is promisory notes that are 'legal tender for all debts public and private'. But there are now places even in our federal buildings that you can only use plastic and our FRNs are not accepted in the transaction!! (renting headphones to listen to exhibits at the Smithsonian Museums)

So mee how do you see the requirement to tithe?? Doesn't that sort of sound like a reliance, worship even of money?? Why doesn't the church put the father first and worry not about food or clothes?
 
Netti-Netti said:
Currency is a way more convenient ways of dealing with market value issues. Also, it helps operationalize tax debt, which is hard tro do with undocumented trades. That's why what you are proposing is illegal. :)
Click to expand...

I know. I'm just saying it's odd if you really think it through. I think it was more sustainable when it was not convenient. The more people produce and exchange locally and without large government oversight, the more people take care of one another locally and build community, the more sustainable the system is- both environmentally and economically- in my opinion. The convenience of money seems to be a downward spiral toward greed, debt, stress, government rip-offs, etc.

It may be illegal to trade favors, but practically everyone in the US does it. And it is very fuzzy where the boundaries are. Balanced reciprocity (this for that) tends to be what is frowned on, but generalized reciprocity is what I am condoning- everyone gives everything they can to others, and take what they need. Giving gifts of labor or stuff to friends is legal. And then they are free to give to you when you need it. No contracts. No bartering. Just giving and receiving and loving.

Yep, isn't really easy for the government to track and control. And we all know they want their piece of every remotely economic pie known to humanity. But... what is more humane? Sustainable? What builds community? Cold hard cash... or gifts among friends?

Freecycling is based on the idea of generalized reciprocity... all those "free-gans" have something going on there...

I think the problem is not with money per se, but the attitude people have about their use of it.
Click to expand...

I do agree that it is the attitude... however, it also seems that currency structurally reinforces and lends itself to a certain attitude. By reducing face-to-face interaction with people, we are able to ignore people's needs in the community and operate in a zone of concepts rather than actual people. If we didn't have money, I daresay we'd know our neighbors and have a much stronger sense of community.

Just imagine the awesomeness if there were no money. Travel would mean you'd get free gifts of lodging and food and souvenirs from other people, people would cultivate hospitality, and people would get to know one another. People would communicate more... It's a thought experiment- what could be the next step in the evolution of society and culture... What are the possibilities?
 
wil said:
So in my mind Judas should have been praised for taking the dipped bread and performing his duty, rather than Jesus having to get involved in one discussion after another trying to convince a desciple to do what was required.
Click to expand...

This is something in Christianity I have never really understood. Everyone makes Judas out to be this awful person, but it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Someone had to betray Jesus to allow him to fulfill his destiny.

It never goes into the backstory on why Judas betrayed him. I think it is highly improbable that Judas betrayed Jesus merely out of greed. The amount paid isn't much anyway. So why? It certainly seems possible, even probable, that Judas had a moment of clarity of understanding his purpose and destiny, and although he found it detestable, knew what he must do for the sake of us all. In that case, it breaks my heart to consider Judas. If the Lord picked me for that, I don't think I could do it.

It is obvious that it deeply affected Judas' well-being too... as at least one of the gospels explained that after Jesus was betrayed, he went out and hung himself.

Doesn't sound like a guy who is heartless and greedy to me, but rather a heart-broken and genuine disciple.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top