money

Currency is a way more convenient ways of dealing with market value issues. Also, it helps operationalize tax debt, which is hard tro do with undocumented trades. That's why what you are proposing is illegal. :)
Don't forget to fill out your Bartering Income form your 1099-B where you must detail what you traded in even exchange and give the gov't their due...oh and about that garage sale, do you have tax id?

Or how about the folks with the solar cars getting tagged because they don't pay the road tax!! Give me a break the next thing we'll see is the Hummer getting a discount because he's a gas hog and the hybrid paying double tax because he's efficient!! HELLO WAKE UP AMERICA!!
 
So in my mind Judas should have been praised for taking the dipped bread and performing his duty, rather than Jesus having to get involved in one discussion after another trying to convince a desciple to do what was required.

But on to another interesting twist, are you saying if not Moses someone would have filled that bill, also Mary, Adam....keep going Krishna, Mohamed, Bush?? Interesting predestination contemplation, that if one doesn't fill the role as required someone will step up...

Again I don't believe he should be seen as a total evil, but I don't believe he should be praised either. He just... Did what had to be done, it twas the will of your god, and when the will of your god is done, those who fulfil that will are simply playing their role, there is no need to condemn them (as that is not our place.[Judah for example] so no not money that made this happen. god made it happen.) and there is no need to praise them, (as that praise is gods.[jesus for example])

So yes Wil, if not him someone else would have stpped up to the plate and we may of been saying "Oh why don't you agree with me!!! You're a total peter!(judah)"
 
Again I don't believe he should be seen as a total evil, but I don't believe he should be praised either. He just... Did what had to be done, it twas the will of your god, and when the will of your god is done, those who fulfil that will are simply playing their role, there is no need to condemn them (as that is not our place.[Judah for example] so no not money that made this happen. god made it happen.) and there is no need to praise them, (as that praise is gods.[jesus for example])

So yes Wil, if not him someone else would have stpped up to the plate and we may of been saying "Oh why don't you agree with me!!! You're a total peter!(judah)"


The Almighty Jehovah has the ability to foresee future events, but it wasnt God making Judas do bad .


The reason the bible foretold about Judas is because Jehovah knew it would happen .


Jehovah didnt make him do it .

it was the same with the foretelling about the signs of the last days EARTHQUAKES, FAMINE, PESTILENCE, WAR , ECT ECT the bible foretold that these things would be happening on a worldwide scale in the last days ,but it is not God who makes it happen


that is not to say that Jehovah knows what everyone will do , his foreknowledge is selective he chooses what to fore see.
 
No, but someone -had- to do it... If they didn't all the prophesy of he will come from the line of david and be king of all and he will sacrafice himself and he shall wear sandals and there shall be no room in the inn! all of that would of been false... So If it weren't Judas, it would have been another.

Jesus HAD to die didn't he? Judas was simply an end to a means... He was one of the many tools used for the sacrafice... So now ask yourself the question again... "If not Judas......" I kind of feel sorry for Judas, he gets a bad wrap.... He tried to give back the bribe and cried and said he was sorry... What happened to forgiveness? Peter stood there and did nothing... He denied christ to his face three times... But he came out pretty much ok didn't he.
 
No, but someone -had- to do it... If they didn't all the prophesy of he will come from the line of david and be king of all and he will sacrafice himself and he shall wear sandals and there shall be no room in the inn! all of that would of been false... So If it weren't Judas, it would have been another.

Jesus HAD to die didn't he? Judas was simply an end to a means... He was one of the many tools used for the sacrafice... So now ask yourself the question again... "If not Judas......" I kind of feel sorry for Judas, he gets a bad wrap.... He tried to give back the bribe and cried and said he was sorry... What happened to forgiveness? Peter stood there and did nothing... He denied christ to his face three times... But he came out pretty much ok didn't he.


Judas did become completely, inexcusably corrupt. even though he did not start off in that way , the fact that he became an apostle shows that at one time he was on the right track .

YES Judas "who later betrayed him" and "who turned traitor."—Mt 10:4; Lu 6:16.

i suppose it is a case of a persons ATTITUDE and God can read hearts, so Judas must have had a different attitude to peter , and God knows just what each individuals heart is. in fact at one time Judas was even given responsibility with the money boxes, so at one time he must have been doing things right, it just goes to show how a persons attitude can change if they allow place for the devil .


make no mistake it does happen,

as already mentioned, at the beginning of his apostleship Judas was faithful to God and to Jesus.

so then ,Christ must have meant that "from the beginning" of when Judas started to go bad, started to give in to imperfection and sinful inclinations, Jesus recognized it. (Joh 2:24, 25; Re 1:1; 2:23)

Judas must have known he was the "slanderer" Jesus mentioned, but he continued to travel with Jesus and the faithful apostles and apparently he made no changes.


so it seems he was living a double life because it was after they had been out on the preaching work that Jesus mentioned that one among them was a slanderer.
Near Passover 32 C.E., Judas, with the other apostles, was sent out preaching. (Mt 10:1, 4, 5)

Shortly after Judas’ return, and less than a year after he had been made an apostle, he was publicly denounced by Christ, though not by name.


"One of you is a slanderer [Gr., di·a´bo·los, meaning "devil" or "slanderer"]."


The account explains that the one who already was a slanderer was Judas, who "was going to betray him, although one of the twelve."—Joh 6:66-71.


yes , it is the same today , followers of christ could start off doing things right, but then they turn to slander and their attitude is plain to see. and the outcome for those people will not be good .

and it is JEHOVAH and JESUS who can read hearts







.
 
So in my mind Judas should have been praised for taking the dipped bread and performing his duty, rather than Jesus having to get involved in one discussion after another trying to convince a desciple to do what was required.

But on to another interesting twist, are you saying if not Moses someone would have filled that bill, also Mary, Adam....keep going Krishna, Mohamed, Bush?? Interesting predestination contemplation, that if one doesn't fill the role as required someone will step up...

But back to Judas and 30 pieces of silver, and money...F(fe)RNs we have over here. Federal Reserve Notes, used to be backed by Gold, used to be backed by silver, used to be exchangeable for lawful money...but now all we have left is promisory notes that are 'legal tender for all debts public and private'. But there are now places even in our federal buildings that you can only use plastic and our FRNs are not accepted in the transaction!! (renting headphones to listen to exhibits at the Smithsonian Museums)

So mee how do you see the requirement to tithe?? Doesn't that sort of sound like a reliance, worship even of money?? Why doesn't the church put the father first and worry not about food or clothes?

This is something in Christianity I have never really understood. Everyone makes Judas out to be this awful person, but it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Someone had to betray Jesus to allow him to fulfill his destiny.

It never goes into the backstory on why Judas betrayed him. I think it is highly improbable that Judas betrayed Jesus merely out of greed. The amount paid isn't much anyway. So why? It certainly seems possible, even probable, that Judas had a moment of clarity of understanding his purpose and destiny, and although he found it detestable, knew what he must do for the sake of us all. In that case, it breaks my heart to consider Judas. If the Lord picked me for that, I don't think I could do it.

It is obvious that it deeply affected Judas' well-being too... as at least one of the gospels explained that after Jesus was betrayed, he went out and hung himself.

Doesn't sound like a guy who is heartless and greedy to me, but rather a heart-broken and genuine disciple.

Jesus said:
Matt 9:9-13
9As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Compare Hosea 6
1 "Come, let us return to the LORD.
He has torn us to pieces
but he will heal us;
he has injured us
but he will bind up our wounds.
2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.

3 Let us acknowledge the LORD;
let us press on to acknowledge him.
As surely as the sun rises,
he will appear;
he will come to us like the winter rains,
like the spring rains that water the earth."

4 "What can I do with you, Ephraim?
What can I do with you, Judah?
Your love is like the morning mist,
like the early dew that disappears.

5 Therefore I cut you in pieces with my prophets,
I killed you with the words of my mouth;
my judgments flashed like lightning upon you.

6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

7 Like Adam, they have broken the covenant—
they were unfaithful to me there.

8 Gilead is a city of wicked men,
stained with footprints of blood.

9 As marauders lie in ambush for a man,
so do bands of priests;
they murder on the road to Shechem,
committing shameful crimes.

10 I have seen a horrible thing
in the house of Israel.
There Ephraim is given to prostitution
and Israel is defiled.

11 "Also for you, Judah,
a harvest is appointed.
"Whenever I would restore the fortunes of my people,
Did Judas, a sinner who stole money from the treasury and such, listen to the call for righteousness? He obviously realized in hindsight his error, and hung himself. What Judus did was dishonorable. It was sick. We should learn from his error.

When God called Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, God extended mercy at the last moment, and spared Isaac. Did we humans return the mercy when God offered Jesus? There were several chances for sinners to extend mercy to Jesus, and spare him, but did any do so? They insisted that he be crucified, even when Pilate offered to release Jesus, as was customary during the Passover. Did they turn to Jesus to be healed of their illness?

Will we ever learn? Will we ever turn to be healed?
(Compare Isaiah 5:20-24
 
There were several chances for sinners to extend mercy to Jesus, and spare him, but did any do so? They insisted that he be crucified....
Those who demanded his crucifixion were unaware of Jesus' divinity. Recall Jesus said: "they know no whay they do."

It has been over 2000 years and we don't have that excuse any more. But even now opposition to Him continues and the blessings of the New Covenant are rejected.

Will we ever learn? Will we ever turn to be healed?
Why do we make a point of not learning? Why do we refuse to be healed?
 
Did someone indicate Mary went bad?

Mee said Judas went bad when it appears he assisted Jesus in fulfilling his contract and prophecy, if not Judas, who?
Consider these words of Jesus:
Matt 12:38-41
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
If the people would have listened to Jesus and repented, they wouldn't have killed him. Jonah prophesized, and the people of Nineveh listened, repented, and averted the prophesy of its destruction. Was the contract of the destruction of Nineveh fulfilled? No, because the people repented.
 
That's an interesting concept, SG. I have often thought that Jesus' crucifixion was not necessary, but most mainstream Christians tell me that is a heretical point of view.

From the mainstream Christian POV, it seems that Jesus had to be sacrificed- that is, killed. He was the sacrifice to end all sacrifices. His blood was our ransom, etc. In that case, the crucifixion was required, and some human being had to do it. So, the humans who did it, while operating under free will, were also working toward the glory and will of God, though their work was detestable. For if God willed that Christ would die as a sacrifice on the cross, then someone had to do it.

From a non-mainstream view, I have always valued Christ's teachings and life- his message- over his death. That he was steadfast to his message unto his death underlies his purity, but I do not see (personally) why the actual death is necessary. It seems to me it would be better if people listened to Christ and had repented at the time.

However, I have routinely been told that is a heretical viewpoint that "misses the point" of Jesus- which is that he was, above all, a sacrifice and so necessarily sent to die for us, in our stead.

In which case, we get back to feeling sorry for Judas, for if it was mandatory that someone kill Jesus... well, it sucks to be who ever has to do it. All sorts of issues there of free will vs. predestination.
 
That's an interesting concept, SG. I have often thought that Jesus' crucifixion was not necessary, but most mainstream Christians tell me that is a heretical point of view.
To me his death and resurection complete the story. If he'd not gone through with it he'd been yet another of a line of folks with good ideas. The fact that he says that 'these things and better you will do, for I go to the Father' is where the rubber meets the road. He blazed a trail and not only showed us the path but walked it. The story also shows the trepidation, take this cup from me, and the forgiveness, they know not what they do. It was a matter of completion, in my mind one that for Christians could not leave us wanting.
 
Those who demanded his crucifixion were unaware of Jesus' divinity. Recall Jesus said: "they know no whay they do."... It has been over 2000 years and we don't have that excuse any more. But even now opposition to Him continues and the blessings of the New Covenant are rejected.

Why do we make a point of not learning? Why do we refuse to be healed?
Sri Chinmoy: "My desire says - although God is good, I do not need Him right now."


Was the contract of the destruction of Nineveh fulfilled? No, because the people repented.

The people repented, then reverted to their evil ways and were destroyed after all. I think the moral of the story is that a one-time repentance is not enough.
 
Sri Chinmoy: "My desire says - although God is good, I do not need Him right now."

Was the contract of the destruction of Nineveh fulfilled? No, because the people repented.

The people repented, then reverted to their evil ways and were destroyed after all. I think the moral of the story is that a one-time repentance is not enough.
There was what, about 200 years (more or less) between the time of Jonah prophesying against Nineveh, and the time of Nahum prophesying against Nineveh, with Assyria conquering northern Israel during the time between these two prophets?

I seriously doubt that any of the folks of Nineveh that were around during the time of Jonah were also around during the time of Nineveh's destruction. These were different people. The repentance of their ancestors was not enough. (The sins or righteousness of the ancestors do not transfer to the descendents. See Ezekiel 18)
 
There was what, about 200 years (more or less) between the time of Jonah prophesying against Nineveh, and the time of Nahum prophesying against Nineveh, with Assyria conquering northern Israel during the time between these two prophets?

I seriously doubt that any of the folks of Nineveh that were around during the time of Jonah were also around during the time of Nineveh's destruction. These were different people. The repentance of their ancestors was not enough. (The sins or righteousness of the ancestors do not transfer to the descendents. See Ezekiel 18)
I see your point. But a failure of an intergenerational transmission of spiritual wisdom and values is what's notable here.

Does the Word of G-d apply to only a single generation? Is knowledge of G-d’s will a trendy thing? Are concepts of divine justice and holiness merely temporary?

The way I see it, every generation has an obligation as stewards of Revelation to pass it on intact to future generations.
 
I see your point. But a failure of an intergenerational transmission of spiritual wisdom and values is what's notable here.

Does the Word of G-d apply to only a single generation? Is knowledge of G-d’s will a trendy thing? Are concepts of divine justice and holiness merely temporary?

The way I see it, every generation has an obligation as stewards of Revelation to pass it on intact to future generations.
Isn't that one aspect included in Matt 12:38:41? :confused:
Matt 12:38-41
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.​
 
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