And where is that??!!?? Up in the clouds??!?? Or maybe in some geographical location in Outer Space??!!?? Jesus was on Earth and in Heaven at the same time... "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is IN heaven." (John. 3:13) Erm... "Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." (Matt. 26:18) If one is given all Authority, what does this mean??? If you cannot show me but one verse of Scripture...That Jesus was given Kingship in 1914 then what you have written will have to be considered fallacy...
yes it is very true that no one at that time had ever gone to heaven . And yes, JESUS was the one that came down from heaven , he gave up that heavenly life and came to be in the likeness of man as flesh and blood , but after he had gone back up to heaven , and even later on in 1914 after he had recieved his kingship in 1914 ,he shortly after that started to ressurrect those chosen ones who were going to rule as kings and priests with him in the heavenly kingdom. yes those 144,000 for the most part had been asleep in death for many years , but as soon as Jesus recieved his greater aurthority as a reigning king in the heavenly kingdom , he started to ressurrect them . yes things are all going to Gods plan ,and it is all working out very good . and the good thing is that, after 1914 if any of the 144,000 who are alive on earth die, they do not have to be asleep in death, they are up there with JESUS in the twinkling of an eye, they are resurreced straight away as soon as they die . and most of them are already up there with JESUS, ruling with him as kings and priests . And it is all very good “Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom. luke 12;32 yes they are a little flock they are 144,000 in number, and they are all going to heaven .
did you not realize that the bible is a book of prophecy and chronology? and that 1914 is a very significant date inline with bible prophecy and chronology. yes we are now since 1914 living in very thrilling times, and knowing just where we are in the stream of time is very thrilling to behold. and NOW in this time of the end , the GOODNEWS about GODS KINGDOM and the GOODNEWS about JESUS and his kingship, is being made known for a witness to the nations , it is putting people on notice about it all, BUT THE QUESTION IS, how doYOU AND I respond to such GOODNEWS. matthew 24;14, i think most people here on this site know how i respond ..... I THING IT IS GREAT NEWS And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.MATTHEW 24;14 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. MATTHEW 6;10 YES its all happening in the heavens , THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM WAS SET UP AND ESTABLISHED IN 1914 daniel 2;44 Jesus has recieved the kingship that he was GIVEN Daniel 7;13-14 The rebellious angels who are followers of satan, have been cast out of heaven , revelation 12;9 . IT IS NOT GOOD TO HAVE REBELLIOUS ONES IN GODS GOVERMENT , its all happening in the heavens, and things are looking good in the heavens now that the rebels are out of the picture. but soon all the rebels who are down here on the earth will be cleared out the way as well, and then GODS KINGDOM can rule without any opposition at all. its best to kiss the son PSALM 2 ;12 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER phillipians 2;10-11
i think you mean matt 28;18 yes he sure has been GIVEN IT , and now in the conclusion of this system of things , he is with his followers who have not lost their focus on doing what Jesus commanded them to do . they are teaching others everything that JESUS taught , and they are making disciples . 18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” . MATTHEW 28;19-20 yes those who have the holyspirit with them are a force in motion . and they all know just who the father is psalm 83;18 That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.psalm 83;18 and they all listen to GODS SON JESUS CHRIST luke 9;35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him.” luke 9;35
I havent found any INAPROPRIATE verses as yet, but here is a PROPER one And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. revelation14;1 and do you notice how they have that name of JESUS , and his father JEHOVAH inf ull view on their forehead, yes the name of Jesus father is JEHOVAH, And they are not ashamed to wear those names , and everyone knows just who they belong to. i love how the book of revelation uses symbolisim to make a point , in days gone by slaves used to have a mark on the forehead to make known who they belonged too, and here those who are slaves of JEHOVAH and JESUS CHRIST, are very clear to see . and in matthew 24;45-47 he is feeding them very well , and it is straight from the hand of JESUS I have heard some people say that the 144,000 number is also only symbolic, but in revelation chapter 7;4 AFTER mentioning the 144,000 it speaks about the numberless GREAT CROWD who are going to survive the GREAT TRIBULATION REVELATION 7;9-10,14 and as Jesus said in luke 12;32 those who are going to heaven with JESUS are a LITTLE FLOCK , And the number is 144,000. yes JEHOVAH has predetermined that number , that is how many he wants to rule with JESUS it is 144,000, when Jehovah chooses them it does not mean he has predetermined individuals, but he has predetermined the NUMBER. Yes Gods purpose is now well along and it always comes true
How does this refer to Heaven?? It says Kingdom...But how is this in Heaven?? mee, you have no idea how stupid this sounds... "Nay but, O man, WHO ARE YOU that replies against God? Shall the thing formed [that’s us] say to Him that formed it, [that’s GOD] Why have You made me thus? Has not the Potter [GOD] power over the clay [man], of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?" (Rom. 9:20-21). What about the prophecy of Isaiah?? John?? Were they just guesses?? Jesus also had foreknowledge... "And Jesus said unto him [Peter] Verily I say unto you, That this day, even in this night [the night, not day] , before the cock crow [Not after but before] , thou shall deny me thrice, [you see this too? Not once, not twice, but thrice]" Did Peter accept this?? Or did he think his will was "free??" "Peter said unto Him, Though I should DIE WITH THEE, YET WILL I NOT DENY THEE. Likewise also said ALL THE DISCIPLES" (Ver. 35). And the rest, my friend... is history. Here's some more... "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that [‘that faith’] not of yourselves [NOT of your own faith or will] it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has BEFORE ORDAINED that we should walk in them" (Eph. 2:8-10). "In Whom [GOD] also we have obtained [‘obtained’ not ‘earned’] an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED [our ‘destiny’ was ‘pre’ arranged by God, not us] according to the PURPOSE OF HIM [not the free will, OF US!] Who WORKS ALL THINGS [EVERYthing] AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL [not OUR OWN WILL]" (Eph. 1:11). "Declaring the end from the beginning [sounds pretty specific to me, mee], and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND, and I WILL DO ALL MY PLEASURE: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executes My counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I WILL ALSO BRING IT TO PASS; I HAVE PURPOSED IT, I WILL ALSO DO IT" (Isa. 4 6:9-11). "For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure (Phil. 2:13). "The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, IS FROM THE LORD" (Prov. 16:1). [Regardless of the proper translation of the first half of this verse, the second half is emphatically] "…FROM THE LORD." "O Lord, I know that the way of man is NOT IN HIMSELF [not in his will or choice] it is not in man that walks to direct his steps [he is not ‘free’ to choice where he will walk]" (Jer. 10:23). So if it is not in man...Who directs our steps?? "Man’s goings [steps] are OF THE LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?" (Prov. 20:24). The workings of Satan have deceived the whole world including the ones whom God would later call to be His elect: “And then shall that Wicked [‘Lawless One’—the beast within all of us] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan [It is not Satan, but is ‘after the working of Satan] with all power and signs and lying wanders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God [yes, God Himself] shall send them strong dilusion, that they should believe a lie [Gk: ‘the lie’]…” (II Thes. 2:9-11). "free will" is one of the things universally known to be true by almost ALL men...Does this make it true?? “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD” (Rev. 12:9). We even read this... “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible they shall deceive the very elect” (Matt. 24:24) Don’t you be deceived.This verse does not say: “Satan, which deceives the whole world (except the two billion twenty-first century professing Christians of the world).” No, Satan deceives “the whole world,” including the two billion professing Christians. How many have escaped the deception of Satan by the use of their “free will?” Not one man possesses a will by which he can freely resist Satan. If we are to “resist the Devil so that he flees from us,” we will need the power of God’s Spirit in us. You try to define God using man's wisdom, but what is man's wisdom compared to that of God... "For the wisdom [the ‘wisdom’ mind you, not the ‘foolishness’]…the wisdom of this world is foolishness [Gk: ‘stupidity’] with God. For it is written, He takes the wise in their own craftiness" (I Cor. 3:19). We can either be judged in fire for our works, NOW (I Cor. 3:13-15) or we can be judged in the Lake of Fire/Second Death, LATER (Rev. 20:13-15). But either way, we will be judged. No one escapes the judgment of God.
"According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" (Eph. 1:4) "Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," (Ver 5) "To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath MADE us accepted in the beloved." (Ver 6) "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus BEFORE the world began" (II Tim. 1:9) "In hope of eternal [age-abiding] life, which God, that cannot lie, promised BEFORE the world began" (Tit. 1:2)
As for Satan... Satan is part of God's intention... Did God merely “allow” Satan to try Jesus Christ our Lord? “Then was Jesus led up of the SPIRIT [of GOD] into the wilderness [This is the Spirit of God leading Jesus up into the wilderness. But why? For what purpose?] to be tempted [Gk: ‘tested’] OF THE DEVIL [Satan, Ver. 10]” (Matt. 4:1). Is this not the very same thing we read concerning Job; that he was “tested of God” through the vessel of Satan? “But He knows the way that I take: when He [God] has tried me [Hebrew: ‘tested me’]” (Job 23:10). Satan has a kingdom. Jesus said he has a kingdom. Jesus Himself created all of those “powers and principalities” and kingdoms: “For by Him [Jesus] were ALL things created that are in heaven [we covered this part earlier] and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions [Greek: ‘rulers’], or principalities, or powers…” (Col. 1:16). Notice that Jesus created “dominions—RULERS.” Are we told anywhere specifically who or what these “rulers” are? “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the RULERS of the darkness…” (Eph. 6:12). “A WORLD RULER”! An epithet of SATAN! Wow! Where have we seen this before? This word kosmokrator—A WORLD RULER—an epithet of Satan is used nowhere else in the entire Bible but in Eph. 6:12, and refers to no one else except Satan. And rightly so: after all, how many “world rulers” can there be? Make no Scriptural mistake about it: Satan has an invisible kingdom in “heavenly places” but he also has a kingdom “in the EARTH.” Get ready for a spiritual EARTHQUAKE. “Again, the devil takes Him [Jesus] up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows Him ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD, and the glory of them; And says unto Him, ALL THESE THINGS WILL I GIVE YOU if You will fall down and worship me” (Matt. 4:8-9). Notice how Jesus answers Satan. Jesus does not say to Satan: “Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt NOT LIE…” Jesus doesn’t accuse Satan of “lying.” No, Satan didn’t lie: Satan “TEMPTED” Jesus with the TRUTH. ALL OF THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD REALLY DO BELONG TO SATAN! There’s more: Not only is Satan the possessor of all the kingdoms of this world, but he is, in fact, THE GOD OF THIS WORLD: ...and where do you think this god has his knigdom...In the Church!! "I know your works and where you dwell, even where Satan seat [GK: 'throne'] is...," And the very "depths of Satan" are in the church (Rev. 2:24). Satan did not gain and acquire all the kingdoms of this world as personal possessions against the purpose and intention of God his very Creator! What greater power and authority could there possibly be than to be the possessor of “ALL the kingdom of the world,” and to be the very “god OF THIS WORLD?” Is all this power and might just “allowed” by God or rather is it not purposefully ORDAINED of God? “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power BUT OF GOD: THE POWERS THAT BE ARE ORDAINED OF GOD” (Rom. 13:1). O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction. Will we riegn with Christ in Heaven?? "And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him." I will not post again...God be with you...
As for Satan...Satan is part of God's intention... Did God merely “allow” Satan to try Jesus Christ our Lord? “Then was Jesus led up of the SPIRIT [of GOD] into the wilderness [This is the Spirit of God leading Jesus up into the wilderness. But why? For what purpose?] to be tempted [Gk: ‘tested’] OF THE DEVIL [Satan, Ver. 10]” (Matt. 4:1). Azure, you already know that I do believe a perfect God of goodness and divine love cannot create Satan. It is absolutely contradictory. Lucifer became Satan. Let's not get stock on that point of disagreement so we can discuss the following I believe Jesus went through the 40 days in the desert and through the 3 temptations because he had lost the support and the foundation God had prepared for him. Each one of the temptation corespond to one of the 3 blessings God gave to A& E in the garden. I can go over this in more details if you want
Really?? Please do so... God says WE are to LOVE OUR ENEMIES. Do you really believe that God is a hypocrite? Do you? We WEAK humans are to LOVE OUR ENEMIES, while the very God who told us to do so, in reality, WILL HATE HIS ENEMIES FOR ALL ETERNITY AND TORTURE THEM BY BURNING THEIR FLESH WITH FIRE (or cutting us off from him)! That's what you REALLY believe, isn't it? Let's cut to the chase and stop playing games. You believe that God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth, Humanity, and all that is, is INCAPABLE of persuading puny man to repent of his way and turn to God! You really believe that, don't you. You believe Jesus Christ is going to FAIL at "drawing ALL MEN TO HIM" don't you? You believe Satan is going to acquire BILLIONS MORE SOULS THAN GOD, don't you? If you believe that Christ came to be the SAVIOR OF THE WHOLE WORLD, but FAILED (I John), maybe Christ is "foreign" to YOUR HEART. Have you read my previous posts?? I've already proved it to mee, that the word "eternal" and "everlasting" were never meant to mean the sought... Or should I post it again??
OK , I will God has never stopped loving us. He does not want his children to be separated from him or in hell. That is the opposite. God, even has to love Lucifer that betrayed him. I am not playing any game. Free will and true love requires that man fulfilled his part in returning to God. Many saints have sacrificed their life to lead humanity back to God and change the heart of fallen men. God send the Messiah as a second Adam to reconnect manking to him and erase the original sin. Jesus did not failed. We failed to accept him an rejected him. He did not have to go the way of the cross. He could forgive sins without the cross. I believe, Jesus' heart and mission is misunderstood an it makes Jesus really sad. In Genesis, we can read that God's purpose for His creation was to create an ideal family that would complete His love an expand through out the earth. After the first family disconnected from God, He has not been able to be present in our fallen families because Satan stole God's lineage and became the center of it. God' s purpose has not changed. Jesus came to establish the first family centered on God but was crucified. On the cross, he lost much more that his body. He lost God precious sinless an Godly seed as well as God's future family. This is why, he is coming back I have been busy during the last few weeks. I am not sure which posts.
Perfection needs nothing. And in that case, a response would mean less, of me. So God became man and dwelt among us.
Ha! Get this...A loving God cannot create Satan .....But He can create Hell, where apparently the majority of humans will stay forever!! soleil, precisely!! (disagreeing with Hell though) It is God's WILL!!! "...our Saviour, God, Who WILLS that ALL mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4) Question is though, will God do his WILL!!?? "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, MY counsel shall stand, and I WILL do all my pleasure...I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. " (Isa. 46:10-11) Satan is not called Lucifer not even ONCE in the ENTIRETY of the Bible!! Let alone betrayal....You need to start explaining yourself... God does not need us as much as we need Him... He doesn't need your help, my help, a missionary's help, or anybody else's help to save His children. God does use teachers, pastors, etc. to acquaint people with His Word. But this is a privilege for us, not a necessity for God. Remember the Scripture, that God can "raise up stones" if needed. Are you for real soleil?? The very instant Christ died on the cross humanity was saved!!! "While we are STILL sinners, Christ DIED for our sakes." (Rom. 5:8). It is through his death that WE ARE reconciled... "Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature, for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has it cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross, through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Col. 1:14-20). Besides everyone who lives on this earth has to die!! "And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27) i.e. He failed....That is what you're REALLIY saying isn't it?? Satan can steal things from God?? Do you realise what you're saying?? I won't explain this again read my old posts on this thread... Really?? Let's read why Christ REALLY came... "Think not that I [Jesus] am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matt. 10:34) Jesus was not meant to be crucified?? "...of the Lamb slain from the FOUNDATION of the world." (Rev. 13:8) I take it you don't read the Bible, by your comments...Obviously you don't... Jesus lost His body!!??! This is why He is coming back!!??!! soleil, I've never seen somebody write so much heresy in one sentence in all my life!!! I sincerely hope you don't speak these things to your friends and family...Otherwise you will need you're mouth washed with fullers soap...(Mal. 3:2) Jesus lost so much!!!?? No soleil, Jesus gained so much!!! "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER is given unto me in HEAVEN and in EARTH." (Matt. 28:18) "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly EXALTED him, and given him a name which is ABOVE every name" (Phil. 8:9) This discussion is pointless...
One could always talk his way to salvation. Ok, begin here... In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. See? Or hear salvation? To bad we can't feel it, otherwise it would be pretty intense, rather than all intellectual.
God did not create Hell. We are the ones who rejected God God's will is unchanging an absolute. God will not give up on man, on his children and His creation. It took 4000 years of biblical history to have one man fulfilled the 1st blessing (be fruitful). Jesus could not fulfilled the second one (multiply) and create the first family where Go can dwell. OK sure no problem. I will go over the process of the human fall. It will take more than one post, may be 4 posts so, it will not be too long. Just do not kill me until I finish. Of course, we need God most. He is our creator an heavenly parent. As I said before, love need 2 to be experience. God needs us to complete His love. Like Jesus, God wishes his chilren would be even better than Him. Jesus sai that we will accomplish things even bigger then him. Yes through Jesus' victory on the cross, we are saved spiritually> Jesus wanted to also save us physically by removing our original sin so our children would be born without it. This could have been fulfilled if Jesus coul have started a sinless family while on earth. "Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature, for in Him is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him, and He is before all, and all has it cohesion in Him. And He is the Head of the body, the ecclesia, Who is Sovereign, Firstborn from among the dead, that in all He may be becoming first, for in Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross, through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Col. 1:14-20). Besides everyone who lives on this earth has to die!! "And as it is APPOINTED unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27) i.e. He failed....That is what you're REALLIY saying isn't it?? Satan can steal things from God?? Do you realise what you're saying?? I won't explain this again read my old posts on this thread... Really?? Let's read why Christ REALLY came... "Think not that I [Jesus] am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matt. 10:34) Jesus was not meant to be crucified?? "...of the Lamb slain from the FOUNDATION of the world." (Rev. 13:8) I take it you don't read the Bible, by your comments...Obviously you don't... Jesus lost His body!!??! This is why He is coming back!!??!! soleil, I've never seen somebody write so much heresy in one sentence in all my life!!! I sincerely hope you don't speak these things to your friends and family...Otherwise you will need you're mouth washed with fullers soap...(Mal. 3:2) Jesus lost so much!!!?? No soleil, Jesus gained so much!!! "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL POWER is given unto me in HEAVEN and in EARTH." (Matt. 28:18) "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly EXALTED him, and given him a name which is ABOVE every name" (Phil. 8:9) This discussion is pointless...[/quote]
Azure, I had to respond to your post with 2 posts. It was getting late Absolutely agree. Once again. Jesus did not fail. Men failed him. Man gave authority an power to Satan willingly. We are in a midway position between God and Satan. If we unite with Satan, he takes it. If we unite with God, God takes the victory. This is what happened throughout the bible up until now. Jesus came to defeat an end the satanic world that starte after the fall. Because of the lack of faith, Satan was able to get to Jesus. He killed his body but Jesus was totally victorious spiritually. The messiah has to come back a 2nd time as a 3rd Adam because Jesus (2n Adam) was not able to establish the physical kingdom on earth. For that he needs his physical body. He established a spiritual kingdom. Yes Jesus's foundation is enormous and expanded throughout the world. You are overreacting to what I wrote I agree. Azure, please ask Jesus what he had hoped for when he proclaimed at first the kingdom is at end an why he cry later on over Jerusalem for not having received him Azure, let me ask you a question. Let's go back to the beginning in Genesis Would you agree with the following: A)God gave A&E 3 blessings 1) Become mature, 2) Multiply and 3) Have dominion over His creation. This is the receipe to build the kingdom of Heaven on earth B) Because of the fall A&E were chased away from the garden. Their children were born outside the garden. Their family and their descendants (us) were disconnected from God. Instead a buidling the Kingom of Heaven on Earth, we built Hell on earth. C) God then prepared the world to receive a Messiah in the position of a second Adam to fulfilled what the first Adam failed to accomplish: THE FULFILLMENT OF THESE 3 BLESSINGS. This is not heresy. How can it be ?
Ah... yes, no, maybe, and I don't know. Vote now! And get every one on all! Hands up, leaves out... same same.
