God's Plan

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Azure24, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Jesus was ignored by....whom? And how do you know this Soleil? Show me the proof.

    In the mean time, leave others to their own thoughts about things, just like you have opinions, and nothing more. And John the Baptist, never ignored Jesus...that was a plain lie.

    v/r

    Q
     
  2. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

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    Quahom, I have just posted ( above) in this thread many scriptures that prove that people did not recognized Jesus when he came. It is pretty common knowledge. Concerning John the Baptist, it is less commonly known so I am glad to go over it. I hope you will take the time to read it thoroughly.

    God had repeatedly prophesied to the chosen people about the coming of the Messiah, and the chosen people themselves longed for him and cherished the promise of his coming. How could God send the Messiah in such a way that the chosen people were unable to recognize him? Was it God's will that they not recognize and receive the Messiah? Or did the people fail to recognize him despite God's clearly showing them how he was to come?
    In order to find the answers to these questions, let us first examine the second coming of Elijah. In Malachi, the last book of prophecy in the Old Testament, it says, "'Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes ... '" (Mal 4:5,6). The "great and terrible day" that is referred to is the time when the Messiah comes, and thus this prophecy shows that before the Messiah comes, Elijah must first return.
    Elijah was a great prophet of Israel who lived nine hundred years before Jesus. There is record of his having ascended into heaven on a chariot of fire (2 Kings 2:11). The Israelites' longing for the Messiah was actually intensely focused on the arrival of the historical prophet, Elijah. This was because the Old Testament did not clearly foretell when the Messiah would come, but did clearly indicate that Elijah would precede him.

    It was under these circumstances that Jesus appeared, proclaiming himself the Messiah. He told the Jewish people that he was the Son of God -- this to the very people who thought that he was simply a young man from Nazareth. they had not yet heard any news of Elijah's coming, so they asked, "How could Jesus of Nazareth be the Son of God?"

    Thus, when Jesus' disciples went out among the people of Israel, testifying to Jesus', the people doubted that Jesus was the Messiah and challenged the disciples by asking where Elijah was, since Elijah was to precede the Messiah. So Jesus' disciples turned around and asked Jesus, "' ... then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?'" (Mt 17:10). Jesus replied, "' ... Elijah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased ...'. Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist" (Mt 17:10-13).

    Jesus understood the meaning of the scribes' important question and indicated that John the Baptist was the second coming of Elijah. Jesus' own disciples could easily believe this, but could the Israelites bring themselves to believe it? John the Baptist did not come directly from heaven, and he himself even denied he was Elijah (Kn 1:21). Jesus himself knew that the people would not easily accept it, saying, "' ... if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come'" (Mt 11:14).
    Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah who the people had been long awaiting, but since John himself denied it, whom would the people of Israel believe? Naturally, it would depend on how these two men were viewed by the people of that time.

    First, how did Jesus appear to the Israelites of the time? Jesus was an obscure young man raised in a humble carpenter's home and was not known to be experienced in spiritual disciplines. Yet, Jesus proclaimed himself "lord of the Sabbath" (Mt 12:8), was known as one who was abolishing the law (Mt 5:17), was the friend of tax collectors and sinners, and was known as a glutton and a drunkard (Mt 11:19). He put himself on an equal footing with God (Jn 14:9-11) and told the people that they had to love him more than anyone else (Mt 10:37). Because of this, the Jewish leaders went so far as to claim that Jesus was working by the power of Beelzebub, the prince of demons (Mt 12:24).

    On the other hand, how did the Israelites of that time see John the Baptist? He was the son of a prominent family, and the miracles surrounding his conception and birth were known throughout the country (Lk 1:5-66). When he was older, he lived on locusts and honey in the wilderness, and thus in their eyes, he led an exemplary life as a man of faith. In fact, John was held in such high regard that high priests, as well as the common people, even asked if he were the Messiah (Lk 3:15, Jn 1:20).
    Under these circumstances, the people of Israel tended to believe more in John the Baptist, who asserted he was not Elijah, than in Jesus, who told them that John the Baptist was Elijah. The people decided that Jesus' view of John as Elijah was untrustworthy, thinking that Jesus said this only to make believable his claims about himself.

    Then why did Jesus say that John the Baptist was Elijah? As Luke 1:17 indicates, John the Baptist came with the mission of Elijah. The people of Israel, who believed the words of the Old Testament literally, assumed that the original Elijah would actually come down from heaven. But God chose John and sent him with the mission of Elijah.
    John the Baptist himself declared that he was "sent before" the Messiah (Jn 3:28), to "make strait the way of the Lord" (Jn 1:23). Being a man with such a unique and important mission, John, by his own wisdom, should have known that he himself was Elijah.
    Many of the chief priests and the people of Israel who respected John the Baptist thought that he might even be the Messiah. Therefore, if John had proclaimed that he was Elijah and had testified that Jesus was the Messiah, the Jewish people of that time would have been able to recognize and receive Jesus.

    Then Jesus' family background and seeming lack of experience in spiritual disciplines would not have mattered. However, because of his ignorance of God's dispensation, John insisted that he was not Elijah. This was the main factor that prevented the people of Israel from coming to Jesus.

    In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said that he baptized with water, but that the one who came after him (the Messiah) would baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire; he said that he was not even worthy to untie the thong of his sandal (Jn 1;27). In John 1:33, John said, "'I myself did not know him; but he [God] who sent me to baptize with water said to me, "He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit [Christ]."And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.'"

    Thus God gave John the Baptist a direct revelation that Jesus was the Son of God. Although John did initially fulfill his mission to testify to Jesus Christ, regretfully he did not testify to Jesus throughout his life.

    After meeting the Messiah, everyone should believe in him and serve him throughout their lives. This was especially true for John the Baptist, who came with the mission of Elijah, which was to prepare the Messiah's way (Lk 1:76). Therefore, John should have served and attended Jesus as one of his disciples. John's father was told of his son's mission when he was born and he prophesied, saying, "... 'And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High, for you will go before the Lord to prepare his ways, to give knowledge of salvation to his people ...'" (Lk 1:76,77).

    However, we cannot find any instance in the Bible where John the Baptist actually served Jesus.

    Just before John the Baptist died in prison, having lived without fulfilling his mission to serve Jesus, he began to have doubts concerning his life and Jesus and sent his disciples to Jesus to ask, "... 'Are you he is to come, or shall we look for another?'" (Mt 11:3). This verse proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that John did not believe in Jesus and failed to serve him.
    Jesus was indignant at such a question and answered quite judgmentally, "'... blessed is he who takes no offense at me'" (Mt 11:6), indicating that despite Israel's great respect for John, John had already failed his mission.
    Jesus also said, "'... among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he'" (Mt 11:11). If one were the greatest born of women, surely he should be equally great in the Kingdom of Heaven. Then how could John the Baptist, who was born as the greatest in history, be less than the least in heaven?

    God sent John the Baptist as the greatest of prophets, for he was to serve the Messiah and testify to him before all the people. But he was a dismal failure in fulfilling his responsibility. Matthew 11:12 also explains this, saying, "'From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven had suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force.'" If John the Baptist had served Jesus well, fulfilling his responsibility, he would have become Jesus' chief disciple; but because he failed, Peter, who made the greatest effort among Jesus' disciples, became the leader of the Twelve.
    In order to prepare the people of Israel to have faith in Jesus, God gave many testimonies to John's parents, Zechariah and Elizabeth, who were representatives of the Judaism of that time. God continually worked miracles so that the people would accept that he was directly working in the conception and birth of John the Baptist. Undoubtedly, John was told by his parents about his being related to Jesus, and, as mentioned above, he must have received many revelations directly from God.

    Yet, despite all of this preparation, John the Baptist failed because of his disbelief and ignorance. Moreover, his personal ignorance and disbelief led not only to his individual loss, but also to the disbelief of most of the people and ultimately to Jesus' crucifixion.

    What I am saying is not a lie
     
  3. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Conjecture, based on personal interpretation, based on personal perception, equals a subjective thought.

    There are those in the world who thought they had the truth too, and everyone else would soon enough figure it out...

    Alexander comes to mind, as does MacArthur, Pius X, Judas, oh, and Hitler...

    ...could go on and on...
     
  4. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

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    Quahom1, it would be better to respond to what I wrote point by point and make your case rather than making such unfounded slanderous statement.
    That is such a weak response behind such overeaction. I don't even think you read what I wrote.
     
  5. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    I don't believe you can see the irony in this comment, soleil...I was going to say EXACTLY the same thing about you with MY posts...

    YOU say my posts make no sense, they are crazy (this I find even my ironic as YOU once stated in your posts that Jesus HIMSELF "lacked faith". You have yet to retract that comment...I think you should) and it is "out of context", yet I don't think you even bothered to read the verses in context or even all my posts...Yet you makes points with no scriptural references, and when you do they are exceedinly WEAK...

    Read ALL my posts then disprove ALL my points THEN you can criticize...



    Show me...


    You speak like as if He was suppossed to be accepted by them...

    Why do you think that is soleil...?

    soleil...Just because the Messiah was prophesized to come it did not mean that people will automactically recognize Him...

    Why did no one know Jesus was the Messiah? Could this be the answer?

    "He [Jesus] saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." (Matt. 16:15-17)

    Before Jesus we had the physical...You'd understand this if you bothered to read my posts...

    All that happened before was just "a shadow" for what was to come...

    Yet again, total ignorance. The Jewish people were NOT meant to recieve Jesus...

    "Therefore speak I [Jesus] to them [multitude] in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias [Isaiah], which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive..." (Matt. 13:13-14).

    The gentiles are the "true Jew"...I beg that you read my posts...

    What's your point?? Are you saying that this was not meant to happen?

    Eveyone should believe in him? Everyone who? Physical Israel? What complete ignorance...If you have really read my old posts and have not understtod what I was saying...Then this dicussion is pointless.

    What part of "to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." includes serving and attending Jesus as one of his disciples??

    ...And? Are you saying this never happened?

    Let's read Matt. 3:1-3 shall we?

    "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

    Well soleil? Is this not preparing the people for the Lord?...If it isn't I don't know what is...

    ...And you know what also? I myself also cannot find any instance where it says John the Baptist was actually to serve Jesus either...

    As I've said before...If this were true, you'd of been correct...fortunately this is not true...

    One does not realise what a carnal statement this truly is...I'm just a spiritual babe...But even I know a carnal statement when I see one.

    Why do you think Jesus said one born of women? How else can one be born? Is he speaking of Angels? What's the difference between those born of women and those of the least in the Kingdom of Heaven? Come on now soleil, think about it?

    Ponder on this for a while soleil... I've pratically answered this on many of my posts including this one...

    I'll respond to the rest of your post at a more reasonable time...
     
  6. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

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    I have never said or will never say that Jesus lacked of faith. I have always said that people lacked of faith in Jesus. That is a complete false accusation that you should retract.

    When I make scriptural references, you ignore them or call them weak with a brusg You do not disprove them yourself point by point.


    I gave you many scriptures that prove that point. You want scritpures, you want proofs but at the end it does not really matter anyway, so why not be upfront to begin with.
    In addition to a very condecending tone, you like to flood and overwelm others with scriptures but you cant deal with it when you have to go through many of them thrown at you.

    I already covered that point and why there was two kinds of prophecies.

    No because God revealed this not only to Peter but many who where prepared to receive Jesus, including John the Baptist.

    Reading Mat 13 just show once again that the people that were prepared did not receive him. I already made my point quite clear on this but you did not read it or answered the points. You keep asking things from your top of the mountain that you cannot do yourself.

    You have not read what I wrote.

    I did not say everyone. Enough people that coud have first protected Jesus' own life. That would be a good start. Then help him to build his own familiy and expand his lineage and ... and ... and.

    Here is a good example how you constantly insult people with your arrogant remarks and you expect them to just keep reading what you write while you just keep insulting them some more

    You have not read what I wrote. This scripture that is always used to define most of John the Baptist life and ignore everything else was in my previous explanation. If you had taken the time to read it, you would not even bring it up. I already covered it clearly.

    The verse is quite clear. Jesus was terribly upset at John the Baptist. Peter who did not have the preparation and reputation John the Baptist had became Jesus' first disciple. Another set back for Jesus. If John the Baprtist had followed Jesus, he would not have had to spend 40 days fasting in the desert. That was part of the foundation John the Baptist would have brought to Jesus. Jesus took John the Baptist failure on himself and restored it by going 40 days in the desert.
     
  7. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    First of all, I said nothing slanderous. Second, I am not interested in re-hashing this. We have gone over these points in the past, one by one.

    And the only over reaction I can see here, didn't come from me.

    It is simple, I do not agree with your views on this issue. I didn't agree with them before...why would one think I would start now?

    v/r

    Q
     
  8. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

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    I felt deeply insulted when you wrote " Hitler also thought he had the truth."

    Quahom1, you ask for proofs on a specific point. I responded and now you just come up with some general excuses not to deal with it. Next time do not ask someone for something you are not even interested to folow up on
     
  9. greymare

    greymare New Member

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    perhaps soleil, as humans we only think we know the absolute truth. After all, the bible is the book that so many religions profess to hold dear and yet, all the religions (stemming from the bible) have many differences of opinions. I think that this is because of the Human factor. You and many others similiar state, you know the truth and yet time and time again, others who also are well versed in the bible constantly find faults with your arguments, as you do theirs....
    Interesting to me, but it must be frustrating for you, and others. Hence, the human factor, (or fault?)
    Love the grey
     
  10. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Uhm why insulted? He didn't say Hitler HAD the truth, just that he thought he had the truth... Why should that insult you? Unless your a nazi? Oh wait... Can I call him a nazi? Or does that come under personal attack? I don't want another infraction... oh **** me now I've done it.... ;)
     
  11. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    Hi, all

    soleil and Quahom please read this, if fact everyone...I'll make at least two more posts.

    soleil prove me wrong...If you do it I will shut up for good...Trust me...

    I haven't made a false accusation...Perhaps I misunderstood you...



    This was YOUR quote wasn't it? Look on page 7 soleil...

    Is this really true? So what have I been doing all this time?

    I've always been "upfront"...

    with your many verses you are making the same point, so why bother through 10 verses when they are making the same point...and not only that, they prove nothing...

    You do know what a prophecy is don't you? Something that is going to happen, and WILL happen know matter what...

    That's not my point...Of course God did not only reveal this to Peter. I was saying that there were many, many that God did not reveal this to...

    This is proof that you do not read my posts, how could people be prepared?

    The highly educated cheif preists and Pharisees didn't understand, the multitude couldn't understand, Jesus' OWN disciples couldn't understand his parables...Jesus had to EXPLAIN them himself in private...

    Here I will show you again soleil...READ it this time...

    "All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them" (Matt. 13:34).

    Jesus ONLY spoke to the crowds in parables...Now let's compare it to what Isaiah prophesized...

    "And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed..." (Isa. 6:9)

    "WITHOUT a parable spoke He NOT unto them"

    Is anyone telling me they did not hear? Of course they heard soleil, after all they had EARS...

    "but understand not"
    (Isa. 6:9)

    "This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them" (John 10:6).

    Why then did they not understand if they heard? Beacause they had no SPIRITUAL EARS...They did not understand the words of spirit...

    YES soleil PARABLES are words of SPIRIT!!

    "...words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63).

    "But this spoke He of the SPIRIT…" (John 7:39).

    Not only did they not understand, but they were embarassed to admit it...

    "Jesus said unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, YEA, Lord" (Matt. 13:51).

    soleil...Not even Jesus' OWN disciples understood this...

    "Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and HIS DISCPILES came unto Him, saying, DECLARE [expound, define, explain] unto us the parable of the tares of the field" (Matt. 13:36).

    But surely it was only this parable I hear you say...

    "And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him [and why did they ‘ask Him?’ because they did not know or understand His parables] the parable… And he said unto them, Know you NOT this parable? [Why of course they did not know this parable] and how then will ye know all parables?" (Mark 4:10 & 13).

    Am I going too fast for you soleil? Jesus said if you understand ONE parable you will understand ALL parables...

    But why?

    "These things have I spoken unto you in PROVERBS: but the time comes [not yet, but in the future] when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall show you PLAINLY of the Father" (John 16:25).

    By Jesus’ own admission, He didn’t teach or speak to even His Own apostles "plainly."

    So much for your theory that the people were prepared to recieve Him, soleil...

    Now for a little humor: After Jesus spoke these words to His apostles He explains how He came out from the Father into the world and that He would again leave this world and that He would then plainly make known to them the Father. Not wanting to admit to their total ignorance of what Jesus was saying:

    "His disciples said unto Him, Lo NOW SPEAK YOU PLAINLY, AND SPEAK NO PROVERB. Now ARE WE SURE THAT You know all things, and need not that any man should ask You: by this we believe that You came forth from God" (John 16:29-30).

    Jesus responded: "Oh really?" Well, those are not His exact words (that is what I would have said). Jesus responded: "DO you NOW believe?" (Verse 31). Of course they didn’t. They had not a clue as to what Jesus was spiritually saying.

    And the highly educated chief priests and Pharisees?

    "and when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they PERCEIVED that He spoke of them" (Matt. 21:45).

    Even they did not know the parables...But at least on this occassion they perceived He was speaking of them...

    "and see ye indeed..." (Isa. 6:9)

    Yes they saw Him after all He was in the flesh...

    "...but perceive not." (Isa. 6:9)

    But did they see Him with their spiritual eyes?

    No. As we've discussed God did not reveal it to everyone...

    And to confirm it once and for all Jesus says Himself...

    "He [Jesus] answered and said unto them [disciples], Because it is GIVEN unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them [mutitude] it is NOT GIVEN" (Matt. 13:10-11).

    All I had to do was show you this verse, but I needed to explain it properly...

    I read what you wrote, hence the question...

    Oh, I'm sorry soleil...God can't protect His own son, only puny humans can...Of course, why did I even ask...:rolleyes:

    Tell me soleil...Why would Jesus need protection...When He has conquered even DEATH ITSELF!!!

    If you are offended then I apologise...Those were not arrogant remarks...It's just that your points are BLANTANT heresy!!!

    Trust me soleil, my anger is not with you...It's with the people feeding you this nonsense...

    What happened to John after this is unnecessary...he was merely to pave the way for the Messiah...

    The Messiah ALONE will save...and not only save but SAVE EVERYONE!! To deny this is to deny God!! And you will have to account for yourself during the Judgement!!! He WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND!!! Not with the help of John or any other person!!! Did God send John to "help" him?? Where??!! Show me!!! Jesus Christ doens't need John's help He didn't need anyone elses help...God can "raise stones" to do his work if necessary...God will never fail...Satan only exists because of God in the first place!!! If it were not for God there would be nothing so be thankful...

    Why can't you see soleil!!??

    "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a GREATER than John the Baptist"

    There are none born among women greater than John the Baptist...How does this mean Jesus was upset with?? He was praising HIM!!!!!!

    What did Jesus mean by "Among them that are BORN of women..."??

    Isn't everyone born of women?? Of course they are...

    It seems you are no different with the mutittude...seeing they don't see...

    If one isn't born of women how else can one be born? The answer is so obvious that it doesn't need an explanation...But I will give one for you soleil...

    Who are those in the Kingdom of God?

    They are soleil, the first fruits!!! The followers of Christ!!! They are greater!!!

    All the prophets were to prepare the way for the Messiah...John was the last!!

    "For all the prophets and the law prophesied UNTIL John." (Matt. 11:13)

    That is all he were to do!!! Nothing else!!!

    John was born of women...Christ's followers will be born of the Holy Spirit!!!

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be BORN AGAIN [spiritually begotten, spiritually converted, spiritually regenerated] he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

    Born again...Kingdom of God are you still with me soleil...

    It was not UNTIL, UNTIL I said the Pentecost that the Spirit was given...

    Carnal...Complete and utter carnal!!! I'm sorry if you're offended soleil....

    Tell me something soleil...if you can...

    Which is more important...reputation among men or reputation among God?

    And you have the audacity to say Peter was not prepared!!!

    If you don't know what you are writing please do us a favour...DON'T WRITE IT!

    Read Act 2. Now you go back and say to me...Peter was not preapared...UNBELIEVABLE!!!

    LOL....On a more serious not. I will pray, honestly, that God may guide you to understanding...
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Namaste Azure,
    Yes, surely this is all part of G!d's Plan.
    This whole debate, you knowing everything others being so wrong.
    Tis hell to get hung up on it all so.
    these and greater things ye shall do...
     
  13. Azure24

    Azure24 New Member

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    Hi, Wil.

    Yes it is God's plan.

    And I will be the first to admit that we "understand in part" as Paul has told us. We certainly do not understand all of the mechanics of God. But we can know as much as the Scriptures tell us.
     
  14. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    Jesus being tempted in the desert was not because of a lack of faith. Jesus had to be tempted in all ways because we are tempted and yet He was without sin this had to happen in order for any of it to mean anything,.
     
  15. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

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    John the Baptist spent his time in the desert to prepare the people to Jesus's coming. Once he received a vision of who Jesus was and baptized him, he should have joined Jesus and offered his foundation to him. He was famous, his father was famous. All of this was prepared for Jesus.Instead John the Baptist went his own way. Jesus had to build that foundation again all on his own. He was an unknown son of a carpenter with a dubious past.

    I believed this is why Jesus had to go 40 days in the desert fasting and praying.
     
  16. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

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    Greymare, I understand that one person's belief is someone else heresy. I do not have any problems with people having different opinions and beliefs. I can go deeper than that. I just object to someone being condescending on someone else personal beliefs and calling it heresy. It destroy the potential for dialogue.
     
  17. greymare

    greymare New Member

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    Please pardon my; ignorance Soliel, I would like the john the baptist vs Jesus thing explained to me. I only have my limited catholic upbringing, and i can honestly say that I was never exposed to John the Baptist as anything contrary to almost being a brother like figure to Jesus.
    I am genuinely interested in your views.
     
  18. soleil10

    soleil10 New Member

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    Greymare, I was also raised as a Catholic. I have to run to do some project but I will do it later this evening.
     
  19. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    I cannot fully keep up on this thread; but let me humbly say I admire the brain power being exerted here. If only I could convince everyone how things really are, then you would become seriously amazing preachers! I am too humble to do that, though: to convince. Perhaps I seem proud. It is a complex humility which I cannot really explain; but if God wills it shall be revealed unto you.
     
  20. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    Actually, they were cousins, 2nd cousins, I think, since Mary and Elizabeth were 1st cousins according to Luke 1:36. Which begs the question as to whether John and Jesus played together as kids. I can see it now.

    Jesus: Let's play tag.

    John: Ok.

    Jesus: TAG! Your it! (Starts running toward the river Jordan)

    John: Hey! I wasn't ready. (Runs after Jesus, and catching up)

    Jesus: Haha, you can't catch me!

    John: Wanna bet?

    Suddenly Jesus is at the riverside and stops at the water's edge, turns around, gives John a wink, and walks over to the other side.

    John: No fair!
     

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