"Personal relationship with God"

[AdvaitaZen]

What is the nature of the person?

This word stems from "persona", a Greek word that meant mask.

If you are hearing the voice of God speak to you, it remains delusion, for all that appears in conciousness is maya. This doesn't even mean it is false as such, it might actually be the divine presenting itself to you to show you something, to guide you. There is nothing necessarily wrong in this, other than it is not real.

Whatsoever appears for you is irrelevant, find out who it is arising for.

In this, you will find love, happiness, bliss, contentment, fulfilment, all that you seek is there. It is not something you gain though, it is simply that you were seeking what you actually are the whole time, just in the wrong place.

Mature seeking always turns back on the seeker, you can search high and low, waste years looking for this. Eventually we must all come back to this point though, who is looking for truth? Truth is seeking Truth, seeking itself through lies.

You cannot be satisfied until this is seen though, do not trust my words... look!

That is what meditation is.

Simply be still and silent, it is only the ego and its desire to do something, to avoid this, that is the veil. Do not give it attention, this is giving the delusion energy, just let everything pass and see what remains.

What is seen goes beyond all religious texts, all wise words, all imaginings.

For the first time, life is tasted in its purity.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

In heaven, a busy mind will always find something to complain about, some way to create suffering.

In hell, a still mind will always remain at peace, remain blissful.

Where you are does not matter, the circumstances are irrelevant, for you will project always the state of your mind onto them.

A silent mind is needed, nothing else.

Meditation is the practising of this, but do not even cling to this.

Gradually, the mind will become still and silent naturally, yet all that must be done continues.

Ego is only as a commentary, it is not needed, yet all illusion stems first from its assertion of "I".

What is the true nature of "I"?

It is sentience - intelligence, love, compassion, being, God, Logos, Brahman, Allah, Omkar, Yahwey, Truth, Reality, Existence, Life, Mind, Self, whatever you like, its name is irrelevant, because language is secondary to it.

 

[ajlocksmiths]

Is there a god ? Answer No try living my life and telling me there is a god !

 

[Aupmanyav]

There are no such things as Gods and Goddesses. But most people like to imagine one (or many).

 

[wil]

I believe G!d is a placeholder for all the things we don't understand. Like plagues and healings and droughts and death....we gotta blame/worship something....

So a personal relationship with the natural laws and principles that hold our lives and universe together is absolutely inevitable.

I don't dismiss in anyway the power of meditation, prayer, focus, walking the good walk etc... as it taps into those laws and principles that we don't completely understand.

 

[Etu Malku]

A god is an archetypal image embedded deeply within our unconsciousness, it is brought to the consciousness through symbology, whether words, images, or associations with thoughts and ideas.

What this god becomes to you relies on how you assign meaning to it, because it is YOU who defines what this god is, not the other way around.

A Luciferian knows that the only god they will ever know, is the god Within, the most perfect Self, the non-dualistic YOU.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

A god is an archetypal image embedded deeply within our unconsciousness, it is brought to the consciousness through symbology, whether words, images, or associations with thoughts and ideas.

What this god becomes to you relies on how you assign meaning to it, because it is YOU who defines what this god is, not the other way around.

A Luciferian knows that the only god they will ever know, is the god Within, the most perfect Self, the non-dualistic YOU.

Your basic approach is wrong because you position yourself erroneously.

God is not an imagination, it is a word describing something, just as all words attempt to convey something. You deny mystical experiences, it is because your path does not provide them. These are as experiential scripture, they show us a particular aspect of our true nature.

It is quite easy to become identified with them, creating a spiritual ego, and just as with becoming identified with other beliefs, this is very dangerous. Yet, in and of themselves, each mystical experience is invaluable.

You want a path that confirms yourself, but as such it will only ever be in your head. You speak much on psychology, but it is only concerned with the patterns of thought and the results. The very fact it can be studied though, the very fact we can observe thoughts proves we cannot be the thoughts, there must be some distance enabling us to see them. Psychology has never ventured to these depths, yet you trust their words, they have not known themselves, yet you look to them to understand yourself.

The Eastern religions are a type of super psychology, they have ventured far deeper into the psyche than any psychologist has dared. What they have found is that it is unreal, just an appearance in time, an identification with the movements of this arising. Delving into this further, they have found what this is, what has become identified, and its nature when not identified with anything. It is good that at least the West is beginning to look, but it is still a long way behind the East because of Christianity and its affect on our society, it makes Christ look less special when you realize he simply taught us to find this same essence within us.

Even the Bible says though that in seeing Christ was co-equal to God, he dropped even this identification. The basic disease of humanity is identifications, it is the source of all evil. As such, I cannot condone any path which tries to create a stronger identification. I have seen through identifications so I know man needn't be attached to them, peace is possible only through this removal of false differences.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Is there a god ? Answer No try living my life and telling me there is a god !

Suffering is not bad, it is supposed to bring us to question for whom the suffering arises. It is actually a blessing, something is calling you to come out of this dream. The whole key is "my life", it makes you separate from life. Look further into this and you will find you ARE God, you have only been taken the story too seriously.

Yet, again, God is a word, another thought. It is not that you are uniquely God, every atom of existence is God, everything we see and hear and touch, there is nothing which is other. Suffering stems from ego, find out its validity.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

I believe G!d is a placeholder for all the things we don't understand. Like plagues and healings and droughts and death....we gotta blame/worship something....

So a personal relationship with the natural laws and principles that hold our lives and universe together is absolutely inevitable.

I don't dismiss in anyway the power of meditation, prayer, focus, walking the good walk etc... as it taps into those laws and principles that we don't completely understand.

No, it is a word trying to describe something.

The problem is that what is described cannot be pointed to. Most words like "sun" we can show a picture of and understand the correlation. This is not so with what the word "God" tries to say, there is nothing which is not it, so no correlation can be easily made.

The problem is that in the West we have made religion only a belief system, and have indeed made it a crutch for our lack of understanding. The Catholic Church has denied the possibility of even finding its meaning because then Christ is no more something that can be worshipped. They live off of our offerings, it is a business, and finding out what is intended by this word "God" will make their business impossible. They make it about worship, about proving you are less than the object of worship, and in this they are very successful. They have harmed humanity in every way because of this, but that is always the price of power, and in gaining this they are very successful.

This is why cults are so prevalent in the West though, we think Christ is just a great charismatic figure, we have no real basis for judging a true guru. Something has happened in a Christ, a Buddha, a Krishna, that is available to all. What they are saying is not their imagination, but how it is perceived is our imagination.

I am very happy about the current fellowship between various branches of Science and the Nondualists, this is very timely for it is removing the imaginings and showing the actuality in a way that can be very fruitful in the future as this gathers steam. I think the New Age movement which is loosely affiliated has to die, for it clings to the imaginings and tries to justify it through science, this is wrong. Rather, science should be used to validate spirituality, and this is happening.

This is the most popular such conference I am aware of. On this site, there are many talks from scientists and gurus, and the result is much more grounded in reality while still being an authentic venturing into truth.

 

[Thomas]

What is the nature of the person?
This word stems from "persona", a Greek word that meant mask.

The Greek outlook was determined by a fundamental dualist outlook, and it's outlook quite 'negative'. Antiquity in general tended to see man as the plaything of the gods.

Christianity, following its Hebrew roots, took a radically different and a more holistic approach, the body being the dynamic manifestation of the soul, rather than something in which a soul finds itself.

Christianity revised this further in light of Revelation. Christianity is to dualism what Quantum Theory is to Newtonian physics, but the old dualist ideas still dog the common ways of thinking.

If you are hearing the voice of God speak to you, it remains delusion, for all that appears in conciousness is maya.

I suggest the created state is far more permeable than you allow. God is not bound by the abstract constructs and rules of human thought, philosophies and psychologists.

If one understands the wider implication of the Christian theological idea of 'hypostasis' (that underpins the Doctrine of the Incarnation), then that sheds a completely different light on things.

The Divine is not a thing like everything else is ... and can manifest as It so chooses, without undergoing all the limitations that apply to nature: "all things are possible with God" (Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27).
As the saying goes, nothing amuses the gods more than men who make plans. I would extend that to those who determine what God is and what God isn't, what God can and what God cannot do ...

In this, you will find love, happiness, bliss, contentment, fulfilment, all that you seek is there.

Is this not simply seeking one's own gratification?

 

[Thomas]

I believe G!d is a placeholder for all the things we don't understand.

And yet the sacra doctrina of the world says quite a lot about what we can and do understand?

... Like plagues and healings and droughts and death....we gotta blame/worship something....

Do we? Or is it that you hold God responsible for natural calamities?

So a personal relationship with the natural laws and principles that hold our lives and universe together is absolutely inevitable.

I'm not so sure. Buddhism, Taoism, I can think of a number of traditions that do not inevitably state a personal relationship with the Divine.

I don't dismiss in anyway the power of meditation, prayer, focus, walking the good walk etc... as it taps into those laws and principles that we don't completely understand.

Do they? If we don't understand them, how do you know they do?

 

[Thomas]

The Catholic Church has denied the possibility of even finding its meaning because then Christ is no more something that can be worshipped.

You do talk utter bollocks at times.

If you want us to think you're anywhere near as illumined as you evidently want us to think, then I suggest you take care to excise such crass and bigoted opinions from your posts ...

 

[Thomas]

I believe G!d is a placeholder for all the things we don't understand.

And yet the sacra doctrina of the world says quite a lot about what we can and do understand?

... Like plagues and healings and droughts and death....we gotta blame/worship something....

Do we? Or is it that you hold God responsible for natural calamities?

So a personal relationship with the natural laws and principles that hold our lives and universe together is absolutely inevitable.

I'm not so sure. Buddhism, Taoism, I can think of a number of traditions that do not inevitably state a personal relationship with the Divine?

You paint a very gloomy picture, Wil ...

 

[Thomas]

I believe G!d is a placeholder for all the things we don't understand.

What about the things we do? All the Traditions are based on what we can say, with all reason, it is possible to know, as well as those things which we know we cannot know, but none of them depend on ignorance for their doctrines.

Like plagues and healings and droughts and death....we gotta blame/worship something....

Is that how you think of God?

So a personal relationship with the natural laws and principles that hold our lives and universe together is absolutely inevitable.

Not really. Think about Daoism, Buddhism ... (allowing for the personalist elements within the overall schemata)

You paint quite a negative picture, Wil, if you don't mind me saying.

 

[wil]

Posts so good they gotta be posted thrice?

Again Thomas, you see it as a negative picture, you see it as the rug being pulled out, you see my understanding as Jesus being no more than a great orator, philosopher and motivator...

That would be your perspective. But I read the OT and the thoughts of the ancients regarding G!ds and supernatural...and it all related to what they couldn't explain at the time...why is this person childless, why are the newborns dying, why did we have a flood, why do we have bumper crops....

And no, I don't in anyway blame 'G!d' for natural calamaties....that is what man does...hell the Evangelicals here in the US said New Orleans was hit because of all the sin...that anytime a Muslim country gets it it is because G!d frowns on those heathens...no natural disaster are ..... er..... natural. (climate change discussion appropriate for other threads). Earthquakes and Volcanoes....not gods but movement of tectonic plates and release of pressure, hurricanes and tornadoes air pressure....things in nature shove and push back....similar to me and you I guess....nature.

You say a personal relationship with natural laws and principles is not inevitable...do you know someone out there defying gravity without mechanical devices?

G!ds laws to me are no different than gravity....as I've said prior, 's/he' does not punish us for our sins...we are punished by them...

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

[youtube]FDyyClqlvlY[/youtube]

 

[AdvaitaZen]

The Greek outlook was determined by a fundamental dualist outlook, and it's outlook quite 'negative'. Antiquity in general tended to see man as the plaything of the gods.

Christianity, following its Hebrew roots, took a radically different and a more holistic approach, the body being the dynamic manifestation of the soul, rather than something in which a soul finds itself.

Christianity revised this further in light of Revelation. Christianity is to dualism what Quantum Theory is to Newtonian physics, but the old dualist ideas still dog the common ways of thinking.

I am not even sure how this relates to anything I've said.

I am not suggesting anything spiritual in this, I have simply said we are not what we think we are, and have pointed out this word "personality" points directly at this. If you think personality is something related to the soul, well, I will have to laugh.

We can perhaps say the soul is what gives attention and believes the personality, but it never becomes affected by it in reality, it is like when we watch a movie and become attached to a character, when the movie is finished you see you weren't the character.

I suggest the created state is far more permeable than you allow. God is not bound by the abstract constructs and rules of human thought, philosophies and psychologists.

Now again the dualistic nature of Christianity, for somehow we have gained a God on top of a soul. If all is one, if existence is holistic, then soul, spirit, and God must be one. Something here is blocking the realization of oneness.

Perhaps we can say the soul is attached to identifications and personality, whereas dropping this brings us back to God? I cannot say soul is real anyway, it is as a drop trying to take on the ocean, when it finally lets go and falls into the ocean it cannot be located anymore - it is all just water.

If one understands the wider implication of the Christian theological idea of 'hypostasis' (that underpins the Doctrine of the Incarnation), then that sheds a completely different light on things.

It appears I just did discuss hypostasis. My emphasis is on dropping all that is not original though, returning to hypostasis, and in this we become united again with the whole. We can understand this and that, but what benefit is there in knowing the truth if you maintain the lie?

The Divine is not a thing like everything else is ... and can manifest as It so chooses, without undergoing all the limitations that apply to nature: "all things are possible with God" (Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27).
As the saying goes, nothing amuses the gods more than men who make plans. I would extend that to those who determine what God is and what God isn't, what God can and what God cannot do ...

It is always interesting when people discuss the nature of God without being God realized.

Is this not simply seeking one's own gratification?

These are not desires, they are natural arisings when we are in tune with the one.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

You do talk utter bollocks at times.

If you want us to think you're anywhere near as illumined as you evidently want us to think, then I suggest you take care to excise such crass and bigoted opinions from your posts ...

I think it is humorous how steadfastly you cling to your Church yet insist something spiritual has happened to you. Your assertions are so empty, clearly just parroting some Christian text. Your ego is so absorbed in your tradition, you actually seem to take it personally when I speak truthfully of your faith.

I suggest you begin to take truth above faith, truth above God or Jesus or any idea that arises for you. The only truly good desire in this life is truth, all else is just an avoidance. Your books give you answers to questions you didn't even ask, now you don't have to look for truth because you think you found it.

What is surprising is how little Jesus has actually spoke in the Bible, we are just reading some men claim they are inspired by the Holy Spirit ramble on about utter nonsense. This is what you base your religion on, your life on, this is enough for you.

 

[wil]

AZ.... you have your beliefs....and they are no more than that, I have mine and Thomas has his. This is a discussion forum both of us are outnumbered in belief by a billion catholics...not to say they are right and you are wrong....but while we all consider possiblilities we should all realize we know very little.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

AZ.... you have your beliefs....and they are no more than that, I have mine and Thomas has his. This is a discussion forum both of us are outnumbered in belief by a billion catholics...not to say they are right and you are wrong....but while we all consider possiblilities we should all realize we know very little.

To say I have beliefs is erroneous.

All I am ever saying is what lies beyond all beliefs.

Beliefs are all poison.

Every single belief brings us away from truth.

That is my whole point.