Corona virus vs religious tradition..

The roads to and in cities are empty. The environment in my memory has never been as clear it is now in Delhi. But India is a complex country, many influences work simultaneously. For example, today there was a large gathering of daily-wage workers in Mumbai from states like Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. Police had to effect a baton charge to disperse them. Many of these people are Muslims and perhaps wanted to go home for Ramadan, but the rail service has been suspended. Moreover, Mumbai is the biggest hotspot for Corona virus. The states also do not want people to come back from Mumbai and add to their problems. Then getting food supplies during the allowed time also sometimes creates crowds. Governing India's 1.38 billion is not an easy job.

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In our Dayton area Baha'i community we had Feast recently by conference call. There are also virtual devotions over the computer in the area. It doesn't affect my life much. My wife and I were retired anyway, and I don't mind being at home all the time.
 
Good, but it has deeply affected economy and employment.
muhammad_isa said:
.. all we can do is pray. .. apart from all the other measures we are taking, of course.
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Well, many of the Muslims in the sub-continent do not think anything else is necessary. They still congregate for prayers against common sense and instructions of the governments, and stone the medical teams. About 1/3 of the infected are members of the Tablighi Jamaat.
 
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I'm not sure if this was posted earlier or not, but the Chief Rabbi of Israel had declared a suspension of "kissing" the Western Wall, the Torah, siddurs, mezuzahs, plus a suspension of certain "life" events (weddings, bar/bas mitzvahs, etc.) We can do the "life" events, but they have to be done over the internet.

True, there are those who refuse to abide by the restrictions, but they're usually ultra-/Orthodox. Unfortunately, those are the ones who end up getting sick and/or passing the virus onto the next victim/s.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
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Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine said:
True, there are those who refuse to abide by the restrictions, but they're usually ultra-/Orthodox. Unfortunately, those are the ones who end up getting sick and/or passing the virus onto the next victim/s.
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We've got an utra-orthodox community in North London (the biggest in the UK) that's suffering disproportionate cases of the virus.

It seems to me a number of factors at play, one is, apparently, the community does not watch TV nor listen to the radio. And, as you say, the utra-orthodox in all traditions resist their practices being curtailed. So ingrained is the idea of the prejudice of the outside world that I'm sure many see it as simply another way of the Gentile to stop them practicing their religion.

But here the Charedi leaders have issued a 'rare' and 'stinging criticism' of those in breach of social distancing rules. Partly this is a response to media coverage of Lag B’Omer bonfires in the streets of leafy Stamford Hill, where it was obvious people were in 'flagrant breach' of lockdown rules, a situation they described as 'completely unacceptable'.
 
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1500 Christian churches in California say they’ll open this weekend despite the restrictions in the state. In Chicago hundreds of southern baptist churches across the city will also open. The city said they’ll be fined. A prominent businessman here said he’d pay all their fines now and into the future.
 
It should be OK if they wear protection and keep distance.
My son's office opened today. May have spent a lot of time in going from Delhi to Gurugram (another state, Haryana, less than 20 km away but a traffic bottleneck). We will know when he returns.
But I am worried, he will meet many people.

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StevePame said:
1500 Christian churches in California say they’ll open this weekend despite the restrictions in the state. In Chicago hundreds of southern baptist churches across the city will also open. The city said they’ll be fined. A prominent businessman here said he’d pay all their fines now and into the future.
Click to expand...

Will that businessman be willing to pay for any/all funerals and/or all future medical bills related to the virus?

I hope so!

Phyllis Sidhe+Uaine
 
X= Number of people
Y=Cubic feet of air
Z= Duration of time inside

The formula for infection is the smaller the Y the smaller X n Z A need to be.

Of course this could be exasperated by heavy breathing, be it labor, gym workout, singing, yelling, coughing, sneezing.

I think we can all be mindful of the factors and limit or eliminate time in danger xones.

It still.aint us we should be worried about, but transmission to our loved ones and others.
 
wil said:
It still.aint us we should be worried about, but transmission to our loved ones and others.
Click to expand...
I think that is secondary to the supremacy of religion. If people die in observance of their religion, then they go straight to heaven. Martyrs. :(
 
Yes that is a discussion point.

But me thinks it is the supremecy of belief, eh?

We know there are various religions...that believe different things.

And that our levels of belief and commitment vary.

I'd say the number of martyrs in the world are many when it comes to willingness but few when compared to the population. It is also certain sects the martyrs gravitate.
 
Here is a case where 100 people who attended a church service on May 10 near Frankfurt, Germany, got infected. Attending religious services has been permitted since May 1, provided certain distancing rules are adhered to.

https://www.rnd.de/panorama/schon-m...denz-steigend-7VP7UKYJS3LBBYUX2MIMFP2VQY.html

(linked article is in German)

Interestingly, amusingly, authorities seem to claim that these people did not get infected at the church service, but rather "later, at home". No acute cases from this incident yet, mercifully.

Communal muslim prayers for the end of Ramadan have been called off, apparently.

(Scratches head, goes back to brooding and lurking on this thread).
 
I see no reason people of diverse Faith's should allow this scamdemic psyop prevent them from disobeying the evil totalitarians orders and go about the business of their faith brethren interactions as usual. Covid1984 probably doesn't even exist, even if it does it is GREATLY overblown and the numbers and stats regarding it are highly inflated, misrepresented Orwellian disinfo.
Here's a post I made on another forum in response to someone talking about the covid death toll, I will cut/paste it here to express my thoughts and the actual facts about this whole thing....

//...There is no covid death toll. Covid1984 doesn't exist. Probably
From the beginning they've just been calling everything covid19, literally every illness from common cold to flu to pneumonia( notice how they don't even mention either anymore really) to sickness and death from cancer or heart attacks and strokes *covid19 deaths)...literally any ailment symptom is a *covid19* symptom.
But let's pretend for a moment it exists, up until a month or two I personally did believe it did (but was just being overblown) so I'll revert to that view for a moment and make the same arguments I made then. Here goes....

Covid19 may be real. But they are intentionally inflating numbers of covid infections and deaths and misrepresenting the numbers and statistics to the public to make us morally afraid of a illness that's a little bit worse than the seasonal flu or pneumonia and cast it like it's the bubonic plague black death so as to make us so afraid that we will willfully submit to Orwellian, authoritarian, draconian, totalitarian global lockdowns and to crash the economy...destroy the middle classes to get rid of the upwards/downwards mobility latter to create a global system(NWO) of only the major monopoly/crony corporations having total hegemony and power and wealth along with a even tiner number than now of super rich and super powerful like 0.001% elites and everyone else....equally poor, no middle classes. Slavery, serfdom, worse and more vast than any other serfdom and slavery in history.

The CDC themselves admitted in august/early September that of the over 100,000 so called covid deaths in America anyways....were allmost totally, over 90% people on average age of 84 up with one or more SERIOUS underlying illnesses/comorbidities(its is pertinent to note that the average life expectancy of anyone is 82) and that only about 9600 of those deaths were from covid alone.
Then after a few days of having that on their site...they inexplicably removed it without explanation.
Back in the spring the CDC and WHO sent out memos to the MSM and hospitals to list and name(I recall articles on one MSM news media site out of Britain if I recall correctly...dont remember exactly which one now) as well as that article shared on infowars...that they were told to list anyone with any flu or cold like symptoms as having covid and anyone who died from other causes....but WITH covid as specifically covid deaths(tens ...dozens of thousands in each country die each year from having the flu complicate other conditions they have leading to death...again..,almost exclusively very old people...justbas with covid...do we shut down and forcibly quarantine and make the whole world to wear masks, hand sanitizer obsessively and socially distance and shut down every middle class business and fine and jail people for not following such insane rules and crash the global economy...every year during flu/phemonia season?).
The WHO from the very beginning and still today(ironically) have been saying that masks are largely pointless and ineffective as is extreme social distancing and obsessive hand sanitizing(that they are helpful...but not as much so as we're being told) and particularly that crashing the economy and extreme lockdowns rules counter productive and unnecessary. Ironically talking head *medical professionals/top doctors* and govts and media and celebrity-dumb are ignoring all that and lying to us, brainwashing mind controlling us and putting us through hell for nothing.
Masks are pointless...useful only if someone with covid or any virus specifically directly spews directly from their mouths or nostrils a virus or covid directly into your mouth or nose or other orifices, otherwise..,useless...the virus is said to be two microns acrossed...gaps in the fabric of most masks are 3 micron...if the virus is airborne....the masks are pointless...they're just an exercise in virtue signaling and bullying others and literally torture ( you are only breathing in your own carbon dioxide over and over....which is dangerous ...and people are being forced, forcing each other and even forcing children to wear them fir extended periods every day)and a symbol of silence and submission to totalitarianism.

This whole thing is madness. The virus may exist...but it's not nearly the threat its being painted as...not even close. The death rate is literally only about 0.001%, 99.999% of those who get it...either don't have any illness symptoms of it and only carry it for a short while or if they do get I'll from it...the vast, vast majority get better in a few days or so , mostly only mildly to moderately ill..and a very small number require hospitalization(just like with the flu or pneumonia).

This is all complete madness, and is being used only as a cover for ABSOLUTE orwellian totalitarianism on a global scale. There is no need for all this crap. Their agenda in lying to us about it and using it as a excuse to dehumanize us, take away our basic God/nature given rights/dignity and civil liberties and make us ABSOLUTE slaves, to crash global economy...consolidate power and wealth and destroy middle classes and make everyone equally poor and also repressed by political correctness at the same time.

Read 1984 by George Orwell...they're using it as an instruction manual ...they want to make the whole of human society...all countries and peoples...like the system and society in that book(even worse)...as is said in the book(and is their plan)...*if you want to know what the future looks like, Winston, just imagine/picture a boot stomping on a human face...forever.*

That is why Trump is right to say the toll is what it is, to downplay it...because he knows what they're doing and why and their end game...and is opposed to it. It's not downplaying individual deaths...as small a percentage as they are, but to counter the hysteria and brainwashing mind control and the totalitarian agenda. Because after all...every year millions die from all sorts of causes everywhere...and we dont do this kind of hysteria and constant msm/govt/etc. Highlighting of those numbers constantly or create and partake in hysteria and destroy freedom and the global economy over it. Why?
Why just with this pandemic..,which as far as pandemics go...is a relatively minor and very manageable one.

Every day for all of history every individual has risked harm and death to themselves or accidentally causing such to others...that's the risk we all take TO LIVE, life is risk.
We can't all just be forced to live in a bubble and in diapers our whole lives and bully others(and have govts bully the people and govts bully the people into bullying each other) into bubbles. The brainwashed keep calling the people who are challenging this all selfish monsters that wanna kill grandma. Well..,that's inverted logic because they are the selfish ones demanding everyone submit to the hysteria and the totalitarian madness...because they're afraid of shadows.
This had to end. And Trump is one of fea world leaders standing up to it. And they hate and demonize him and others like him for it.

End.

Anyways everything I said is true and to be paid heed to, except for the part about the covid1984 virus being real...I mean there's a slight chance it could be...but it probably isnt...they still haven't even isolated it in a lab or gotten microscope pictures of it, it's as real as theoretical physics concepts that haven't been proven yet with hard proof.
Heck...theoretical physics hypothesis have more logical validity and reality than this b,s, virus does.//
 
...and more. Here is the exchange between me and one of the responders to my comment on that forum...

//b
There is no covid death toll. Covid1984 doesn't exist.
From the beginning they've just been calling everything covid19, literally every illness from common cold to flu to pneumonia( notice how they don't even mention either anymore really) to sickness and death from cancer or heart attacks and strokes *covid19 deaths)...literally any ailment symptom is a *covid19* symptom.
But let's pretend for a moment it exists, up until a month or two I personally did believe it did (but was just being overblown) so I'll revert to that view for a moment and make the same arguments I made then. Here goes.
Covid19 may be real. But they are intentionally inflating numbers of covid infections and deaths and misrepresenting the numbers and statistics to the public to make us morally afraid of a illness that's a little bit worse than the seasonal flu or pneumonia and cast it like it's the bubonic plague black death so as to make us so afraid that we will willfully submit to Orwellian, authoritarian, draconian, totalitarian global lockdowns and to crash the economy...destroy the middle classes to get rid of the upwards/downwards mobility latter to create a global system(NWO) of only the major monopoly/crony corporations having total hegemony and power and wealth along with a even tiner number than now of super rich and super powerful like 0.001% elites and everyone else....equally poor, no middle classes. Slavery, serfdom, worse and more vast than any other serfdom and slavery in history.
The CDC themselves admitted in august/early September that of the over 100,000 so called covid deaths in America anyways....were allmost totally, over 90% people on average age of 84 up with one or more SERIOUS underlying illnesses/comorbidities(its is pertinent to note that the average life expectancy of anyone is 82) and that only about 9600 of those deaths were from covid alone.
Then after a few days of having that on their site...they inexplicably removed it without explanation.
Back in the spring the CDC and WHO sent out memos to the MSM and hospitals to list and name(I recall articles on one MSM news media site out of Britain if I recall correctly...dont remember exactly which one now) as well as that article shared on infowars...that they were told to list anyone with any flu or cold like symptoms as having covid and anyone who died from other causes....but WITH covid as specifically covid deaths(tens ...dozens of thousands in each country die each year from having the flu complicate other conditions they have leading to death...again..,almost exclusively very old people...justbas with covid...do we shut down and forcibly quarantine and make the whole world to wear masks, hand sanitizer obsessively and socially distance and shut down every middle class business and fine and jail people for not following such insane rules and crash the global economy...every year during flu/phemonia season?).
The WHO from the very beginning and still today(ironically) have been saying that masks are largely pointless and ineffective as is extreme social distancing and obsessive hand sanitizing(that they are helpful...but not as much so as we're being told) and particularly that crashing the economy and extreme lockdowns rules counter productive and unnecessary. Ironically talking head *medical professionals/top doctors* and govts and media and celebrity-dumb are ignoring all that and lying to us, brainwashing mind controlling us and putting us through hell for nothing.
Masks are pointless...useful only if someone with covid or any virus specifically directly spews directly from their mouths or nostrils a virus or covid directly into your mouth or nose or other orifices, otherwise..,useless...the virus is said to be two microns acrossed...gaps in the fabric of most masks are 3 micron...if the virus is airborne....the masks are pointless...they're just an exercise in virtue signaling and bullying others and literally torture ( you are only breathing in your own carbon dioxide over and over....which is dangerous ...and people are being forced, forcing each other and even forcing children to wear them fir extended periods every day)and a symbol of silence and submission to totalitarianism.
This whole thing is madness. The virus may exist...but it's not nearly the threat its being painted as...not even close. The death rate is literally only about 0.001%, 99.999% of those who get it...either don't have any illness symptoms of it and only carry it for a short while or if they do get I'll from it...the vast, vast majority get better in a few days or so , mostly only mildly to moderately ill..and a very small number require hospitalization(just like with the flu or pneumonia).
This is all complete madness, and is being used only as a cover for ABSOLUTE orwellian totalitarianism on a global scale. There is no need for all this crap. Their agenda in lying to us about it and using it as a excuse to dehumanize us, take away our basic God/nature given rights/dignity and civil liberties and make us ABSOLUTE slaves, to crash global economy...consolidate power and wealth and destroy middle classes and make everyone equally poor and also repressed by political correctness at the same time.
Read 1984 by George Orwell...they're using it as an instruction manual ...they want to make the whole of human society...all countries and peoples...like the system and society in that book(even worse)...as is said in the book(and is their plan)...*if you want to know what the future looks like, Winston, just imagine/picture a boot stomping on a human face...forever.*
That is why Trump is right to say the toll is what it is, to downplay it...because he knows what they're doing and why and their end game...and is opposed to it. It's not downplaying individual deaths...as small a percentage as they are, but to counter the hysteria and brainwashing mind control and the totalitarian agenda. Because after all...every year millions die from all sorts of causes everywhere...and we dont do this kind of hysteria and constant msm/govt/etc. Highlighting of those numbers constantly or create and partake in hysteria and destroy freedom and the global economy over it. Why?
Why just with this pandemic..,which as far as pandemics go...is a relatively minor and very manageable one.
Every day for all of history every individual has risked harm and death to themselves or accidentally causing such to others...that's the risk we all take TO LIVE, life is risk.
We can't all just be forced to live in a bubble and in diapers our whole lives and bully others(and have govts bully the people and govts bully the people into bullying each other) into bubbles. The brainwashed keep calling the people who are challenging this all selfish monsters that wanna kill grandma. Well..,that's inverted logic because they are the selfish ones demanding everyone submit to the hysteria and the totalitarian madness...because they're afraid of shadows.
This had to end. And Trump is one of fea world leaders standing up to it. And they hate and demonize him and others like him for it.
End.
Anyways everything I said is true and to be paid heed to, except for the part about the covid1984 virus being real...I mean there's a slight chance it could be...but it probably isnt...they still haven't even isolated it in a lab or gotten microscope pictures of it, it's as real as theoretical physics concepts that haven't been proven yet with hard proof.
Heck...theoretical physics hypothesis have more logical validity and reality than this b,s, virus does.

bb
 
And for more context and information, here is an exchange between myself and one responder to my last comments above...

name hidden said:
name hidden said:
America will burn if these election results are overturned. Be careful what you wish for.
Click to expand...
America may burn anyway. In Portland after the election (the "peaceful protest" there) two of the largest banners to be seen from images online state:
"The Election is Over. But the Fight Isn't"
"We Don't Want Biden. We Want Revenge."
Contrarian Deist said:
There is no covid death toll. Covid1984 doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Contrarian Deist said:
But let's pretend for a moment it exists, up until a month or two I personally did believe it did (but was just being overblown) so I'll revert to that view for a moment and make the same arguments I made then.
Click to expand...
Contrarian Deist said:
Anyways everything I said is true and to be paid heed to, except for the part about the covid1984 virus being real...I mean there's a slight chance it could be...but it probably isnt...they still haven't even isolated it in a lab or gotten microscope pictures of it, it's as real as theoretical physics concepts that haven't been proven yet with hard proof.
Click to expand...
You made some very good points about this being a propaganda and control tool, and I agree with those points entirely.
I do believe the virus does exist though, for two reasons. For one, https://www.fda.gov/media/134922/download , while the FDA/CDC states they do not have virus isolates (which is odd, but I'm not a virologist so what do I know LOL), they do have over 31,000 genome sequences of the virus as of June 2020. (Table 8 if you review that link)
For two, and perhaps a more important reason to me, my wife is on the front lines of this. She is a charge nurse in an ICU and they've converted a number of their units to "COVID units". Apparently with a scan of the lungs, COVID has a distinct appearance over other lung ailments. (cancer, pneumonia, flu, cold, etc.)
...but again, the points you made on how "this" is being handled, are quite spot on and even my wife would agree. (we've certainly discussed this) We not only have a virus pandemic, but we have social hysteria "casedemic'. With that, some medical professional have a strange urge to consider deaths as COVID related when they aren't. We have all sorts of officials using this to their advantage regarding funding and them making a trial out of population control. Only the liberal left sees masks as infallible protection, meanwhile a number of very valid scientific studies clearly outline, masks do next to nothing for this virus.
Click to expand...

My response#
Thanks.
Well, I do agree it MIGHT exist, I'm not 100% convinced either way, just that it PROBABLY doesn't. But, I can understand why some might be convinced the other way as a *probability*, either way I'm glad we can agree as most sensible people do that even if it does exist..its seriously, SERIOUSLY overblown and is being used as a tool for totalitarianism.
I know alot of sensible nurses and doctors who realize it is overblown hysteria and misleading numbers still believe it exists because they have treated *covid patients* but none of them have seen direct proof that these people ACTUALLY have covid. Just patients coming in with flu and pneumonia type symptoms...which a questionably designed test a d tools tells them that the patients have covid symptoms(which are exactly the same as cold and/or flu and/or phemonia symptoms...as well as other illnesses symptoms which shill propagandist *top doctors* have arbitrarily claimed are *covid* symptoms....but they really haven't devised as objective way of differentiation between these others and supposed covid)...and they are basically just arbitrarily pronounced to have *covid19*.

And the heads of their hospitals are just telling lower level nurses and doctors..*its covid*...and so they, trusting their higher ups claims...just believe it. I understand why they would have a hard time believing in a overt conspiracy of that level and that their bosses would be shill willing participants in the conspiracy....they want to believe in the honesty and goodness of most people including most health professionals who are at the top of their hospital hierarchies. But they are being lied to, deceived, and used unwittingly.

As far as the *distinct appearance* through the scan. 1) I would be surprised if some of these scanner techs are FIXED so as to give false appearances and even many lower level medical professionals are not fully trained to properly distinguish(some are, many are not), and 2) the virus has yet to be DIRECTLY seen in a truly objective way, all they have for it are computer models, this is why whenever they *show* the virus to the public via media and so on its always some computer generated image...or just a picture of other Corona-viruses like sars and h1n1.

There is alot of disinfo campaigns going on with this not only to mislead the public but also *officials* and medical professionals.

But, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it does exist. The evidence is still out, still lacking in absolute proof either way. Either way...there is something VERY shady going on, a disinfo campaign and mkultra style misleading and gaslighting of massive proportions unlike the world has ever seen, in regards this thing(and of course the *responses* to it).

One thing is certain. DO NOT under any circumstances get their vaccine for it. In secular terms it is something that is meant to alter our Gene's and cause sickness..not stop it and may well have microchip tech in it(Bill Gates, a total eugenicist psychopath major NWO player and one of the biggest vaccine pushers and has a hand in a few of the leading vaccines for covid, just in the last year actually patented/filed a patent of a tech connected to vaccinations which has the patent number...I smurf you not...2020060606).

Which brings me to the Christian and/or religious and *prophecy* aspect of this all, while I do not believe in revealed religions theologies or parta of their *holy books*(other parts have varrying degrees of validity IMO) ...the NWO is willfully faux manufacturing prophecy fulfillment(of various religions holy books and prophets)...imo to mislead the religious public, but either way....this vaccine....at least if it comes from Gates and globalist NWO sources(if or comes from anti-nwo counter conspiracy sources, which includes Trump, then it may not be the same totalitarian mind control, gene altering , tech filled eugenicist plan...either way I am still skeptical of it myself)...if it comes from Gates support and globalist elites support...and sources...it will be in religious terms *the mark of the beast*....in secular terms...just a tech to alter Gene's and control minds(ie. Souls...in either the secular or religious sense)...refuse to take it...even if that means not being able to work, travel, interact with the rest of society, buy or sell, feed yourself and family, etc, rather if neccasery grow own food or scour garbage for food and/or starves and die....sounds drastic...but even this is better than losing mind(soul) and genetic autonomy to totalitarianism.

This is it folks! *Believe me when I say.. This is the endgame!*(to quote from Megadeths song *endgame*).

Resist no matter what.
 
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