Have you experienced a state of nonduality/infinity/oneness?

[Viswa]

Almighty God does not love evil deeds..
What is there to love, about satan?

I do not love satan .. I cannot .. God does not love that which opposes righteous, pious created beings.
..unless your definition of love is different from mine?

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[Viswa]

If there was nothing to oppose the feel-good state, wouldn't feeling good become meaningless? Suffering makes us stronger and strive to improve ourselves. Feeling good all the time and having no unsatisfied desires would basically mean a slew of lethargic and inactive humans. We may not desire suffering but we need it.

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[Viswa]

Just because some deceive does not mean automatically that all do. The link I sent did have some examples of corroborated visual experiences. But, hell, in a reality where wealth is often espoused as a path to happiness, I realize that many researchers may misrepresent data in the hope of gaining future grants. Also, I realize that as a strong atheist, it may be currently impossible for you to accept the possibility of spiritual experiences as a valid explanation for certain events. In fact, based on the nature of most of your posts here, I would understand that even if you did have what many, like myself, define as spiritual experiences, you would define it as a temporary delusion of your brain. I was an agnostic atheist before my experiences made me start researching religion more deeply and it took extreme experiences to make the switch to the other side. Even then, my switch only fully accepted nondualism while just remaining open-minded about many other properties of religions.

I am certainly not here to define my POV as the only possible reality. I fully accept some other, even materially based, explanations of my spiritual experiences as potentially valid explanations. I try to avoid what many churches do by claiming their view to be the only valid view of God. Even many proponents of science may be doing this now with the practice of scientism which claims empirical data is the only form through which truth can arrive.

Since one needs to observe or experience events to know if they are 'real' the latter point is valid but many proponents of science automatically dismiss or even deny the reality of experiences that arrive through mediums that do not solely represent the physically empirical senses. Science may be searching for answers to the mysteries of life but is only looking in one half of the field. When one automatically denies the veracity of data presented by another because one does believe it though, one is limiting one's and perhaps even others' ability to learn more about the reality we all share. Still, I personally think most information most people have of even their physical reality is based on the belief of another, not personal experience. Each new generation is told by family, school, and society what is 'true'. Children are taught what the right behavior, action, and even belief is. If they trust the teachers, they do not test the statements to prove them through experience. It takes actual experience to deviate from what our cultures tell us is the truth. In fact, sometimes I wonder if change in belief is actually triggered only by the positivity or negativity of our emotional feelings during experiences that challenge our existing beliefs.

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[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I have and the result makes me strongly believe:

• consciousness has everlasting life without form after death
• god is infinite unconditional love
• the more we practice love, the closer we get to god but god denies no one

less strongly:

• god is the mind of this infinite uncertain universe
• communing with our inner god is possible and everyone has an inner god

Whether you have experienced Oneness or not, what are your thoughts about it?

To be a Baha'i is to embrace Oneness, it is the Essence of our Faith.

Baha'u'llah offered in the Hidden Words, a snippet from the Essence of all past religions.

"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created. Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest. Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory."

Bahá’u’lláh, The Arabic Hidden Words 68

Regards Tony

 

[Vasu Devan]

My question here is,
If God said "Such Spiritual experiences are nothing but same Imagination like these Material Experiences", what would you reply to God?
What if he said "every Experience is just limitation born of Mind/Maya, and nothing Else. Oneness is never an Experience, but Ending of all Experiences like Turiya-tita Samadhi (like Physical Death and nothing to know then). That Experience you had is only Causal Body Experience, and comes to an End when Maya/Desire/Ignorance ends."?

Since I have strong mental illnesses, I am open to the idea that what I experienced was just caused by material changes in my brain. But science and many others get too hung up on the cause of an experience, and less so on the meaning. I don't care who/what caused my experience. I am more interested in what the experience meant to me. The key meanings I took from the experience were:

- Everything is God...the whole universe, matter, animals, me, all others
- God is not separate from me. Everyone who is searching can find god within themselves.
- Infinity is not simply an imaginary concept but an actual experienceable state of being
- Unconditional love means love for all that is...not just the parts/beings that make us happy
- Maybe I am a god who got bored with divinity and created this universe to actually enjoy the challenges and wonder of being finite

All that gave me enough food for thought since I am still cogitating over it...

I'm okay with consciousness ending with the end of the body. I am interested to find out if it still exists but I neither fear death nor run towards it. Maybe my POV is best described by 'waiting to die' while spending the interim period by trying to stay content. I believe after death we may lose all physical senses and maybe even emotional ones. For minds so reliant on that previous state of being, they may fear being dead and flee from the state, thus being reborn again on Earth. For the minds who practiced facing all emotions, both positive and negative, they may face that new state and continue to a new reality. Just my opinion and belief though. Nobody knows and will not know until death. We'll know who was right about what then....

 

[Vasu Devan]

Hi. Sorry, I couldn't understand this.

Only for giving value to feeling-good, there is sufferings?
You said, Sufferings makes us stronger and strive to improve ourselves. But, to improve how? Why to become stronger? To be stronger by facing sufferings only to face more sufferings, and again become strong and then again face even more sufferings and then again become more stronger, and like this go on endlessly sufferings without limits?

Why humans should not be lethargic and inactive? What will happen if that is?
Hadn't Old Sages and Monks lived such way in Samadhi and Wandering World? Hadn't they lived in a careless way upon Kingdoms and etc., and just roam in forests and caves and etc.? Are you against such behaviour of such great Monks and Buddha and Sages?
Why Humans should be active? If few/all Humans would go inactive will the world come to end? Won't there be plants and animals relieved from the torture of Humans, and live a little free life compared to Human's Dominance upon such Animal Kingdom? Hadn't humans destroyed Forests and Trees, and built Kingdom and cities, and restricted the animals by limiting it from broader areas those previously dwelled? If Humans go lethargic and Inactive, isn't it better for Animals, Plants and even for World because of reduction of Pollution from Transport, Oils & Gases, Noise, etc.?

Our brain cannot stay happy with too much of anything for long. It longs for new experiences instead of constant repetition. Imagine a life like:
- Everybody did not have to do any work to get what you wanted to stay happy. A machine would get all physical items they wanted.
- No one would catch any physical illness or damage
- (most importantly) You did not have any challenges to overcome
- There would be nothing new to discover

This would be amazing at first. You would get all the stuff you wanted to feel happy. For physical pleasure at least. But games and puzzles would be boring because you could always solve them instantly without ever losing. There would be nothing new to discover because no one was working at any creating any new stuff and the need for working for new creations would be over.

Eventually though, the brain would get bored with this utopia. With nothing new to discover, there would be no purpose to living. It is the experience of the darkness of uncertainty and negative states of physical and mental pain, that drive us to get past them. Risk is dangerous but also exciting if it doesnt last for too long or is not too intense. The fear of failure drives us to excel. Without the possibility of loss, motivation would just die.

Not too many sages and monks roaming the wild these days. The current ones have enough knowledge from the old ones to meditate upon that living in communes and getting basic needs met is enough for most. Some even spend time publishing books.
No one individually needs to be active. You can stay in bed avoiding food or water for a week and you will leave this reality. You may find another one after you leave your body. But for the ones who want to stay, work is needed to be performed by some to keep most of us alive. If farmers didn't bother about cultivating key crops and foods, humanity would die out. A person can be lethargic but mankind cannot.

If you care more about non-human life's survival than human, then go ahead and support and work towards the wiping out of humankind. It may be hard to get followers though. So many people think there is the way the world should be but everyone has a different concept of what would be right / wrong for that world. The is no absolute justice or rightness or wrongness in this reality. Just relative concepts in the mind of man.

 

[Aupmanyav]

However, I do believe that if a divine being exists, it would need to be unconditionally loving or not be truly divine. I, personally, feel that view, while perhaps somewhat arrogant, was validated in my Oneness experience. Essentially that an Infinite Consciousness would not shut out anyone. That, all would be one, etc...

You do not have any evidence for it. It is only your belief and feeling. There is no evidence for any infinite consciousness too. With all what happens in the world, the only possibility is that whatever exists never interferes in it, does not want anything, does not do anything. It is completely unconcerned, un-involved. Nirpeksha (?).
I am sorry to hear about your mental illness.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust? .."

In the beginning there was no dust. The universe was dust-free. What existed was physical energy. But Bahaollah never studied in a school and never knew things that we know now. He only copy/posted what was in Torah, Biblke and Quran, like you do from what he wrote.

 

[Vasu Devan]

You do not have any evidence for it. It is only your belief and feeling. There is no evidence for any infinite consciousness too. With all what happens in the world, the only possibility is that whatever exists never interferes in it, does not want anything, does not do anything. It is completely unconcerned, un-involved. Nirpeksha (?).
I am sorry to hear about your mental illness.

While it's true that I have no proof, even to myself, for a divine being controlling this reality, it is true that I have experienced divine, infinite consciousness. I did not experience as being in an Earthen reality. I did not experience another divine being there, just the presence of all other beings. An infinite knowing. There was no emotion during the state either. Without any physical elements. Just an infinite Knowing.
Of course, I cant prove that to you because you cannot search my mind. However, I have no need to prove it to anyone either. But there are people who claim to be psychics. I doubt that but if you trust one, get them to look in my mind and share what they find.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

In the beginning there was no dust. The universe was dust-free. What existed was physical energy. But Bahaollah never studied in a school and never knew things that we know now. He only copy/posted what was in Torah, Biblke and Quran, like you do from what he wrote.

I see Baha'u'llah was that energy. The source of our Oneness is to focus on the source of God, the Messengers. (Baha'u'llah means Glory of God)

God sent all the Messengers to show us our Oneness. The following passage, taken from the "Tablet of the Universe", describes creation and how that Oneness is given by God in all the Names and Attributes.

"Praise be to God Who hath ever caused His Names and Attributes to penetrate the degrees of existence; Who hath made the effects of those Names and Attributes to shine resplendent and their signs to be firmly established in both the hidden and manifest worlds. By them He hath made the holy realities that are informed by His grace and are the recipients of His outpourings to be the sole revealers of all that pertaineth unto Him, and hath caused them to move through the firmament of perfection in arcs of descent and ascent. He hath ordained these Names and Attributes to be the first and foremost origin and cause of being in the world of creation and the source of the different grades of realities in the degrees of existence. When, through its power of attraction and propagation, the Day-Star of Names and Attributes shone upon the hidden realities in the heart of the unseen realm, they issued forth, were spread abroad, scattered about, set in order, became the recipients of the grace of God and His outpourings, and were made to be the sole manifestations of the Divine conditions and Eternal signs. Emerging from behind the veils, they appeared clothed in raiments of light, moving in the firmament of the unity of God, in orbits of sanctity and circles of glorification...."

Tablet of the Universe (Lawh-i-Aflákiyyih)

A theological description of reality, with reference to Ptolemy and Al-Farabi.

bahai-library.com

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

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[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

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I added more explanation, I hope you are well and happy. We are in the Baha'i fast period now, day 3 of 19 days.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

I added more explanation, I hope you are well and happy. We are in the Baha'i fast period now, day 3 of 19 days.

Regards Tony

I often eat one meal in 24 hrs. I don't need to tell the world. What's so special about gorging before sunrise and then gorging again immediately afterwards. Is that fasting?

 

[wil]

My take.

The oneness that exceeds understanding cannot be explained to others, our language does not contain the words for me to convey it properly.

Nor does it need to be. Nor do I need to convince others it is true or try to get them to join the club of believing as I believe.

Back to the bliss, those fleeting moments are eternities in both directions. A moment in bliss turns out to be hours on earth and untold amounts of thoughts in bliss turn out to be fractions of a minute to the person that is talking to me.

For me it is rarely yet occasionally called for, conjured up, by meditation or chant, not that these and other practices don't have value without breaking thru to the place that doesn't exist.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But there are people who claim to be psychics. I doubt that but if you trust one, get them to look in my mind and share what they find.

I would not trust anyone who claims that. I understand what these people do. They try to shame you into submission. Now, (I think) every one has some dark history.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I see Baha'u'llah was that energy.

"Praise be to God .. and circles of glorification...."

Every thing is that energy, not just Bahaollah, even a dog. That is Advaita Hinduism.
Try something better than just copy and post. Does the passage mean anything other than glorifying his father to prop himself up? Maze of words, shabda-jaala. Trying to look ancient, hath, pertaineth ..
Who translated it? His grandson and heir, Shoghi? What sayings are ascribed to Jesus in Bible have been edited later. The same is true for what Abdul Baha is supposed to have written.

 

[WendyM]

Humans living as bio aware own all the taught stories.

Humans living get life voice image recorded. By heavens state. Died.

Are seen and heard after bio death. As they lived. They aren't seen as the living. As the living seen are born grow become human bio life.

So we die.. we decompose it's science observation says humans. Skeletal dusts are left. Minerals.

Yet the mineral is a God by type.
Biology mainly a water percentile. So human quote water is in heavens body...you can't say first planet body owned water.

As water is held by heavens body.

In holy water heavens life mass...are the dust minerals. No image just dusts as minerals.

In biology body mass owning water within minerals are reacting. Term of bio within are human science terms about Gods ones. Types of substances.

When the minerals don't react correctly within us we suffer all types of sickness. If they aren't corresponding outside us the same.

So how is God loving if it wont and does not maintain functional human form?

Only a living human can state why I believe God loves or doesn't love me.

If we are created mutual equal then first law says its not any human fault that biology changed. To dysfunction Sacrificed. So you can't say to another human hence its your karma. My excuses as another human is why you can't heal.

As humans quoting all quotes by thinking knew just humans by science changed earth mass and our heavens by science technology. Copied what stars entry caused first.

Science terms stars fall entry hence did it first to biology...science terms above.

Men said God bodies were held fixed entity's as sun.. planet ..star mass.

Man baby adult says father chose it for me...human man Theist scientist. Yet a God star did it first the teaching why God didn't love you. By father's man quote.

 

[WendyM]

Why our mother's human records heavenly recorded showed me her Eternal spirit entered out of the eternals side.

Heavens side did the recording.

Changed their bodies to become osmosis converted as the human form God heavens changed. Human image is a human became in heavens. Who dies in bio life as we did not belong on gods side.

Unconditional love. No condition to argue with using human language owning negatives as bio language exists in created mass types. You can't ask it questions nor expect answers. Or challenge it.

The language eternal is it's owned being. We live in light as consciousness. The non alight human advice immaculate. Eternal isn't immaculate yet it's not alight. Our consciousness does not accept the teaching...no condition.

Supports two types of human expressed lives now.

Humans born by sex only bio....with caused separated spirit human by science history.

DNA water mass minerals heavens is a human life recorded. Higher life memories about origin human parents.

Biology is no longer expressed in heavens separate human spirit as waters mass...origin was separated by man scientists machine held constants.

Man notified machine science in star mass earth gained. Lost conscious mind but not DNA first. As DNA can be atmospheric changed yet remain DNA.

Mind changed man built machines as mans science by thinking temple science. Was self organised human man's superiority.

Attacked lost his mind a second time and biology by science his control. The star man warnings.

So father mother with eternal support records exist owning other half life of bio life unable to live now teach us our spirituality.

Isn't baby adult man science technology Jesus attack.

If life finished on earth it by a no Light heavens. The eternal owns no human condition whatsoever. Eternal would exist in its owned being...not any god created state.

Records of origin human life now speak to us in gods heavens. The other half of life we no longer live. We are living the sacrificed DNA genesis bio life ourselves.

My mother showed me by gods heavens visions her owned life message. We claim we get taught by visions heavens memories. Ours...human parents are holy father holy mother together first.

Jesus man human as the healer. By name only. Went from house to house to heal visit sick humans. As a healer taught I did not charge money. I taught pass the good deed forward. We visited humans at home too.

Non organisational healer human only teachings. As father mother's children we are all my brother's and sisters anywhere.

What I learnt from my holy mother a human.

 

[Vasu Devan]

Heavens side did the recording.

Changed their bodies to become osmosis converted as the human form God heavens changed. Human image is a human became in heavens. Who dies in bio life as we did not belong on gods side.

Unconditional love. No condition to argue with using human language owning negatives as bio language exists in created mass types. You can't ask it questions nor expect answers. Or challenge it.

The language eternal is it's owned being. We live in light as consciousness. The non alight human advice immaculate. Eternal isn't immaculate yet it's not alight. Our consciousness does not accept the teaching...no condition.

Your posts, much like abstract poetry, can be hard to decipher sometimes Wendy.
Are you trying to say that the unconditional love of the heavens will accept all? Including murderers, rapists and even pedophiles?

 

[WendyM]

Your posts, much like abstract poetry, can be hard to decipher sometimes Wendy.
Are you trying to say that the unconditional love of the heavens will accept all? Including murderers, rapists and even pedophiles?

No. As it's not on gods side.

We live on gods side as we're as adults first human memory only from an eternal being. Why we don't accept family abuse of family. With God.

God had not abused first human form. The answer. God caused first human form as changed Eternal and we were spiritual being's first. Why it's natural to love as animals show.

God didn't create the eternal.

The eternal can't be challenged it's language only expresses what it is. Unconditional love nothing else. Owning no God condition.

So One less than eternal is a human. We know abuse isn't loving.