Religion as an excuse for war?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by poolking, Aug 10, 2003.

  1. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    I'd be really curious how it'd be possible. Are the immigrants here in their original nation or this one? What about nations in civil war that aren't one nation? And on and on...

    My guess is that this language is somehow not capturing the original meaning. Or it was responsive to a particular time when nations were more clear-cut.

    At any rate, it makes no sense. "Our" nation encompasses everyone from Charles Manson to MLK. So are we judged as a group for our MLKs or for our Mansons?
     
  2. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    the sheep would have been listening to Jesus voice luke 9;35 they are willing to have been led by Jesus and to have been doing what Jesus asked matthew 28;19-20

    the goats are rebellious
     
  3. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    in the final judgement individuals from all nations will be judged as to if they are sheep or goats
     
  4. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    I think Dondi is pointing out that the scripture, at least in that translation, reads as though entire nations will be judged as a group, rather than individuals.
     
  5. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    "When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.matthew 25;31-33



    he will seperate the people


    That is how it will be in the conclusion of the system of things: the angels will go out and separate the wicked from among the righteous

    matthew 13;49



    For we must all be made manifest before the judgment seat of the Christ, that each one may get his award for the things done through the body, according to the things he has practiced, whether it is good or vile.

    2 corinthians 5;10


     
  6. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Maybe a thread could be started:

    Religion as an excuse for peace..:)
     
  7. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Perhaps that might be taking religion into unknown territory.
     
  8. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    the true religion would not be learning war anymore, now that is PEACE:)



    today, the worship of Jehovah God has become elevated like a symbolic mountain.

    Its prominence is for all to see, as it has done something that no other religion has been able to do.

    What is that?
    It has unified all worshipers of Jehovah, who have gladly beaten their swords into plowshares and are learning war no more.
    National and racial barriers no longer divide them. They live as a united people, a brotherhood, even though they are scattered throughout the nations of the world.—Psalm 33:12.

    and it is very good :)PEACE NICCCCCCCCCE
     
  9. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Not for JEHOVAHS WITNESSES we are taught by the most high.


    If you desire to live in perfect health on a paradise earth where there will be no more bullets, no more bombs, no more tanks, no more cannons and no more fear of war, you will want to learn more about Jehovah’s new world of righteousness—man’s best hope, really, his only hope for peace.:)



    Isaiah 2:4:

    "They will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore." So those doing the global preaching work about God’s Kingdom rule must ‘learn war no more.’

    Jesus said that they must be "no part of the world." (John 17:16) This means that they must be neutral in political affairs, not taking sides in the controversies and wars of the nations.

    Who are no part of the world and learn war no more? Again, the historical record testifies: only Jehovah’s Witnesses.


     
  10. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    But that's not to say will will not be answering to God individually, my feeling is that God will judge whether a nation will continue to exist or not. Kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall. Has been that way all through history. Much of the apocryphal literature like Daniel, Revelation, and parts of Isaiah deal with God's judgement of nations, but Revelation 22:2 speaks of healing for the nations as well.

    I fear for my country. I sense the slow moral decay even in my short lifetime how things have changed (either that or I'm just more aware of it through the media). But no, I can't say that it is mere awareness. Our whole moral compass is changing. Perhaps there is a snowball effect related to the media awareness. The more you hear about the kinds of atrocities the media splashes on their frontline news stories, the more people become shocked into shocklessness, if you know what I mean. You hear about a young college woman being abducted and later found raped and strangled, all the while hearing about another similar case, and on and on it goes. After a while, it becomes old hat, and you inevitably expect to see another Hollaway or Stacy Peterson case get stretched out for as long as the media can generate interest. I wonder sometimes if it's the media or if it's just the case of people liking to hear that type of story all the time. Just yesterday, I heard about an 11 year old and 13 year old girls found shot to death just outside one of their homes during a sleepover, only to be found by one of the family members. Can you imagine? But I'm sure Fox News will keep us well informed of continuing developments.

    Sorry for rambling, but damn.
     
  11. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    The media skews us into thinking our nation is filled with immoral people. But the reality is that it is selective reporting. There are far more wonderful people doing great things- large and small- but we get no news on that. Why? Well, I think there are reasons to keep Americans in fear and thinking everyone else is immoral and going to kill them... Easier to control us. Plus, the more we hear about murders, rapes, and thefts the less we remember we're hemhorraging money and lives for a war.

    I just quit watching/reading the news a few years ago. It's been much better for my psyche and for my balance of what I know is happening. I seek out information about important events like the coming elections. Why should I hear about murders and rapes? What good does this do me? Can I do anything about it? No. Do I know these people and can send condolances? No. So what is the point? News should be for generating change. If there isn't anything that can be changed, it probably is mere distraction of the public mind from important things that could be changed.

    I don't really think there will be nations like the U.S. in the Kingdom of Heaven. Nation implies division between people, and inherently there is conflict within that distinction of self vs. other. I think healing comes in unity... the walls fall down and we see each other as brothers and sisters, children of God...
     
  12. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    I think fear occupies more space within the human brain's operational RAM than more subtle spiritual emotions. Hence, we have more vivid memories of fear-related content. Which means the material you're referring to makes for good attention grabbers. The corporations who pay big advertizing dollars like that.
     
  13. Dondi

    Dondi Active Member

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    "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." - Rev. 22:2

    Evidently, that unity comes with a passing of time...at least a year. Which interestingly is the maximum length of time according to Jewish thought that one would be purified in Gehenna. I wonder if there is a correlation?
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Having hitched up, down, out and back this country more times than I have fingers and toes I can attest to how wonderful the people of this world are. Last time was '92 and I've been drooling lately to hit the road again, but last time I spent almost 5 weeks on the road before I untied my sleeping bag off my back pack! Every night in beds or on couches made up with sheets and pillows. I was picked up by an Army recruiter that trip!
     
  15. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    it will take a thousand year rule of CHRIST to get humans back to perfection and the provisions of the leaves spoken of in revelation 22.2 is how it will be done . not litrally of cause but the leaves of the trees are a great symbolisim.

    then when the 1000 years are ended CHRIST JESUS will hand the kingdom back to his father 1 corinthians 15;24-28
     
  16. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Just bumping a topic linked to from the main site. :)
     
  17. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    As this thread has been bumped I will answer this post.

    She does not ever forget she is British or that we started this, being a Muslim now does not affect my political thinking or my humanitarian thinking.

    The fact that you are so patriotric you resolutely refuse to accept your government admitted to telling the world lies in order to take us all into this war, to again control the price and supply of oil, is perhaps why you feel your country has to "clean up this mess"??

    With two children in the services I am very surprised you are not also disgusted and angry that our service people, as well as foreign civilainas, are dying because of oil and lies.

    Of course we should have left well enough alone but that hardly excuses the recent actions of your government or a minority of our service people.

    I have worn a uniform, I have been to war and I have buried some very good friends and yet I will continue to blame the US government for it's actions.

    I do not see America as a monster, nor do I see Iraq, Saudi or even Afghanistan as monsters .. however all the aforementioned have monsters in positions of power and it is the ordinary man in the streeet that is suffering, from Iraqi civilians to Afghani women, from the victims of Saudi propaganda to American servicemen and women.

    Strange isn't it that all 3 Arab countries I have mentioned have all been subject to the US governments chess game for oil ... hmmm makes you think.
     
  18. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    This made me laugh.....so reminscent of Margaret Thatcher ;)

    WW2 saw the British Lion relinquish its control over the oil rich nations of the Middle East in return for US assistance in defeating the Nazi's. That it was the US that aided and funded the rise of the Nazi party in the first place it is easy to see this as a major coup on the part of the US. Most Americans seem overwhelmingly ignorant of just how fascist their nation is on the international stage. They are also prone to wallowing in the romantic glory of being citizens of the biggest bully in history. Some people get off on the kind of strength they feel this gives them.

    This is what REAL patriots look like:

    YouTube - Dead Kennedys - We've got a Bigger Problem Now
     
  19. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist In Galt We Trust

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  20. Jarrett

    Jarrett New Member

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    politics and religion are the same thing, we practice both, we give to fund both, we take from others and justify for both, we lie about both to profit, we change both for our own desires, and we fight wars for both. I would say the father feels about politics the same way he feels about religion. True religion is caring for those who cant care for themselves if we mix that with politics well then you get the religion everyone is familiar with. If you mix caring for others with the power of love you get life and you dont practice living.
     

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