Christianity - what do you really think about it?
- Thread starter Falafel
- Start date
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
Hi there
Muslims love and respect Jesus (pbuh), he is called Isa in the Quran. We believe in the virgin birth and in his Prophethood. We do not believe that he was crucified and rose again but was taken to heaven prior to death.
What we do not believe is that he was the son of G-d. There is only One True G-d, He has no partners or children.
We believe in the teachings of Jesus (pbuh) but not in the Bible, as it has been changed so many times (one example is the scripture states that he was a 'unique' son but the modern bible translates this as 'begotten' - there is a big difference).
We believe that you are blasphemous by suggesting anything but G-d is a deity.
My personal view is that people want something tangible regarding faith, so over time he was deified by the Church in order to supply something tangible for people to feel connected to. It was also a great use of propaganda by the Church and effectively controlled the people.
Muslim men are allowed to marry Jewish and Christian women and the women are allowed to practice their own faith. So the 'faith' of Jesus (pbuh) is not rejected, it is simply the worshipping of anything other than G-d which is rejected.
Quite honestly I worry for Christians, they believe in G-d, many follow the faith well but I have no idea what you will say on the Day of Judgement when asked why you didn't follow the teaching of all the Prophets (pbuh), inlcuding Jesus (pbuh) that there is only One G-d and only He is worthy of worship.
G-d did not abdicate and hand His domain over to a human.
Sorry to be so blunt but there is no point beating about the bush.
Salaam
Muslims love and respect Jesus (pbuh), he is called Isa in the Quran. We believe in the virgin birth and in his Prophethood. We do not believe that he was crucified and rose again but was taken to heaven prior to death.
What we do not believe is that he was the son of G-d. There is only One True G-d, He has no partners or children.
We believe in the teachings of Jesus (pbuh) but not in the Bible, as it has been changed so many times (one example is the scripture states that he was a 'unique' son but the modern bible translates this as 'begotten' - there is a big difference).
We believe that you are blasphemous by suggesting anything but G-d is a deity.
My personal view is that people want something tangible regarding faith, so over time he was deified by the Church in order to supply something tangible for people to feel connected to. It was also a great use of propaganda by the Church and effectively controlled the people.
Muslim men are allowed to marry Jewish and Christian women and the women are allowed to practice their own faith. So the 'faith' of Jesus (pbuh) is not rejected, it is simply the worshipping of anything other than G-d which is rejected.
Quite honestly I worry for Christians, they believe in G-d, many follow the faith well but I have no idea what you will say on the Day of Judgement when asked why you didn't follow the teaching of all the Prophets (pbuh), inlcuding Jesus (pbuh) that there is only One G-d and only He is worthy of worship.
G-d did not abdicate and hand His domain over to a human.
Sorry to be so blunt but there is no point beating about the bush.
Salaam
bob x
Well-Known Member
They will respond that they DID follow the teachings of Jesus, according to what the people whom they trusted told them about what Jesus taught-- not according to what somebody from centuries later who never met Jesus claimed about what Jesus taught.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
I think we've screwed up Christianity. Big time. I would advise that everyone shun Christianity and nobody become Christian in the next few centuries except for those who are willing to devote their lives to studying it, and until they finally figure out what it really meant. Until then, please ignore us. Forget us.
I suppose some Christians will say this is irresponsible, that it would be disobeying the so-called "Great Commission," but what's the point when we don't fully understand Christianity? We're propagating nothing but a distortion.
I would say that if someone does want to do that, they should commit to only being an informer giving information and not a converter or proselytizer. I don't mean knocking on doors! With the Internet, it's probably more meaningful to just set up web sites as beacons of information.
I believe getting knowledge and experience is far more important than someone knocking on your front door. That experience would be limited indeed. But, given the knowledge and experience required to understand Christianity and to fully appreciate its meaning, I wonder what the point is . . . you might as well become a Noahide!! Ironically, that may, actually indirectly fulfill the goals of Christianity (according to my own view).
Muslimwoman,
Thank you for your bluntness! You are right; there is no point in beating around the bush, and I genuinely do want to learn about your beliefs and perspectives.
Your post intrigued me. Below you can find some of my thoughts and comments. I am certainly not a scholar and my comments are by no means exhaustive. I look forward to hearing your responses to these thoughts.
Many Christians (including myself) see three roles of God within the Bible. To suggest that another person is God, or that there are many gods is blasphemous indeed. Many use the analogy of an individual here on earth: one man could be a husband, father, son, etc. at the same time. I believe that Jesus is the human form of God who came to earth in order to provide a path to eternity with God.
Something I am having difficulty understanding is: "We believe in the teachings of Jesus (pbuh) but not in the Bible." Since the teachings of Jesus originated in the Bible, is that not a contradiction?
I am interested to hear what you mean by “it has been changed so many times”? The Bible has been translated into modern day languages. The Qumran scrolls found recently in Israel have shown that while there are slight variances/misspellings, the texts have been unchanged.
I assume your example of "unique" or "begotten," comes from John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His ... Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life."
"Monogenes" is the Greek word used in this statement. Definitions of this word can include: 1) single of its kind, only 1a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents), and 1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God. It can also mean "only-born" or "only." English translations of this word include “one and only,” and “only begotten.” While English translations interpret words differently (and in my opinion, sometimes in error), the original Greek word is the same, and could be translated as either.
John 8:56 - 59. In this discussion between Christ and Pharisees, Christ states:
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
John 10:30 - 33. Again we'll see the Pharisees attempt to stone Jesus Christ for what He will say, because they consider it blasphemy.
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
From my perspective, the "Christian" church has certainly misused and abused its position throughout the ages. Power hungry and greedy men have desired all aspects of control over people (I'm thinking of the Crusades, WWII, and even some churches today). In contrast, Jesus' message was the Good News of spiritual freedom for people. His teachings encouraged people to "love one another" (John 13:34; Romans 12:10; Hebrews 10:24; etc), not to control, manipulate, and cheat.
I was not aware that Muslim men could marry outside their faith (without requiring conversion from their spouse). Are various Islamic countries/sects of Islam more conservative in this area?
I have to go for now, but will hopefully post more later. I look forward to reading your thoughts.
Thank you for your bluntness! You are right; there is no point in beating around the bush, and I genuinely do want to learn about your beliefs and perspectives.
Your post intrigued me. Below you can find some of my thoughts and comments. I am certainly not a scholar and my comments are by no means exhaustive. I look forward to hearing your responses to these thoughts.
Many Christians (including myself) see three roles of God within the Bible. To suggest that another person is God, or that there are many gods is blasphemous indeed. Many use the analogy of an individual here on earth: one man could be a husband, father, son, etc. at the same time. I believe that Jesus is the human form of God who came to earth in order to provide a path to eternity with God.
Something I am having difficulty understanding is: "We believe in the teachings of Jesus (pbuh) but not in the Bible." Since the teachings of Jesus originated in the Bible, is that not a contradiction?
I am interested to hear what you mean by “it has been changed so many times”? The Bible has been translated into modern day languages. The Qumran scrolls found recently in Israel have shown that while there are slight variances/misspellings, the texts have been unchanged.
I assume your example of "unique" or "begotten," comes from John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His ... Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life."
"Monogenes" is the Greek word used in this statement. Definitions of this word can include: 1) single of its kind, only 1a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents), and 1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God. It can also mean "only-born" or "only." English translations of this word include “one and only,” and “only begotten.” While English translations interpret words differently (and in my opinion, sometimes in error), the original Greek word is the same, and could be translated as either.
John 8:56 - 59. In this discussion between Christ and Pharisees, Christ states:
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."
John 10:30 - 33. Again we'll see the Pharisees attempt to stone Jesus Christ for what He will say, because they consider it blasphemy.
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
From my perspective, the "Christian" church has certainly misused and abused its position throughout the ages. Power hungry and greedy men have desired all aspects of control over people (I'm thinking of the Crusades, WWII, and even some churches today). In contrast, Jesus' message was the Good News of spiritual freedom for people. His teachings encouraged people to "love one another" (John 13:34; Romans 12:10; Hebrews 10:24; etc), not to control, manipulate, and cheat.
I was not aware that Muslim men could marry outside their faith (without requiring conversion from their spouse). Are various Islamic countries/sects of Islam more conservative in this area?
I have to go for now, but will hopefully post more later. I look forward to reading your thoughts.
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
Hi Falafel
I do hope you understand that nothing I say is intended to insult you or your beliefs, I am just stating my own beliefs.
This is where our faiths clash. There has always been a path to eternity with G-d, it is through belief in Him and following His will. He sends messengers to us, to tell us His message but to turn one of those messengers into a god is just blasphemy according to my faith. It separates G-d into parts and He is One, not a group of entities.
Surely the bible was written some time after the life on earth of Jesus (pbuh)? So his teachings did not originate in the bible but originated with G-d. Jesus (pbuh) WAS the message and after he left this earth men wrote the bible, from what they remembered of his teachings. So there is no contradiction, I can read verses of the bible like Mark 12:28-30 and I know this is the Word of G-d but I can also read John 8:24 and I know this is a misinterpretation by man. How do I know the difference? Because the message has never changed, there is One True G-d and we must worship only Him.
My view is that the interpretations and translations have been slanted to support the view of Jesus (pbuh) as G-d. (In all fairness I find the same method of slanting with some Muslim beliefs to make them fit the desires of man).
In Isaiah 43:10 G-d states Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. Why would G-d say this is He formed Jesus (pbuh) as a god or part of Him?
The bible also says: ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’ ‘The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’” (Mark 12:28-30).
So why would Jesus (pbuh) declare that G-d is one and we should worship only Him and then go on to say but I am god and you can’t go to heaven unless you go through me?
I also have an issue with the church’s decision to only include 4 gospels and reject over 20 others, this suggests selective reading.
Correct and yes it can mean a number of things but will depend on the root. The issue rests on whether the word used comes from the root of the verbs ginomai or gennao and thus far no-one can prove either.
However, let us look at another instance of the word used in the bible - Hebrews 11:17 – Abraham (pbuh) called his son Isaac his ‘monogenes’ son, yet Isaac was the younger brother of Ishmael so was not an ‘only begotten’ son. The bible also refers to numerous people as ‘sons of G-d’ (including all the Prophets from Adam, the land of Israel, the resurrected, peace makers, etc). So my issue is with the church and their choice of translation/interpretation to suit their view/desire.
Something I wish religious leaders from all faiths would rapidly learn. I often cringe when I read the history of Islam, the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) has such respect and gave so many rights to women, yet within days of his death these rights began to be eroded. I fear hell will be crowded with religious leaders that bend the faiths to their own desires and teach their intolerance to followers of their faith.
I should have mentioned that Muslim men are only allowed to marry pious Jewish and Christian women and the children must take the faith of the father. There are two reasons that Muslim women cannot marry Jewish & Christian men:
1. The children of any marriage must take the faith of the father.
2. Muslims believe in all the Prophets including Jesus, so a Jewish or Christian wife’s faith would not be ridiculed by her Muslim husband (although there may be a few ‘discussions’ about the trinity). Jews and Christians do not accept that Mohammad (pbuh) was prophet, so a Muslim wife’s faith would be ridiculed.
My best friends in Egypt are a Muslim man and Christian women and she goes to church without any problem or pestering from her husband (although not all are so lucky). Their difficulty at the moment is each wants their daughter to follow their faith and they did not decide this before marriage, so people must be careful when entering into such a marriage.
It varies depending on where you go but where it is ‘rejected’ tends to still be in tribal areas, where marrying your cousin is still the norm (despite the teaching of the Prophet that we should marry far and wide).
Islam is not the barbaric faith some would make it out to be, unfortunately though some Muslims are. This is taken from the final sermon of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh):
Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
That was 1400 years ago. How long did it take the ‘civilised’ west to come to this conclusion?
Salaam
A
alaudin
Guest
Assalamu Aleikom,
Hi Falafel,
I'll try to give you a simple answer for your question:
1) we beilive - as muslims - that there is only one God with no partener no son no wife and no peer. God is not like any creature. this is againest your beleif since you beleive in 3 forms of God (father, son and holly spirit). and this makes a christian is a non beleiver in the islamic point of view.
2) person of Jesus PBUH, in islam Jesus is a prophet. and muslims beleive in all prophets and respect them and beleive that they are all unsinfull, we beleive that they are sent to guide the humanity to the way to God, we beleive that Jesus was not curcified we beleive that he has been raised to heaven and he will be back. Muslim beleive that Jesus PBUH never claimed that he is God or the son of God, this has been claimed only by Paul (shawel) after the death of Jesus.
3) Mircales done by Jesus PBUH was just mircales given to him by God to proof that he is a messenger from God, Like all messengers Moses, Soliman, David, Joseph....etc; why do you devine only Jesus?!
4) Mary; we beleive that Mary is one of the Great female beleivers, there is one chapter in Quraan named Maryam (Mary in arabic).
5) for the original sin, muslims don't beleive in original sin, everybody is responsible only for his deeds.
6) we beleive that jospel is word of God. You are claiming that bible is only translated to modern languages and hasn't been changed, can you tell me how many gospels in the holly book? and how many gospels discarded? and when they have been discarded? after Jesus death by how many years? and based upon which craiteria they have been discarded?
see muslims beleive in gospel but Jesus gospel, can you tell me where can we find it? I only can get luke's, mathew's, john's and mark's. why I can only trust these 4 and discards barnaba's or juda's or........!!!!!!
may be you still have more beleives that I don't know, so I can't comment on them.
hope that my contribution help.
Hi Falafel,
I'll try to give you a simple answer for your question:
1) we beilive - as muslims - that there is only one God with no partener no son no wife and no peer. God is not like any creature. this is againest your beleif since you beleive in 3 forms of God (father, son and holly spirit). and this makes a christian is a non beleiver in the islamic point of view.
2) person of Jesus PBUH, in islam Jesus is a prophet. and muslims beleive in all prophets and respect them and beleive that they are all unsinfull, we beleive that they are sent to guide the humanity to the way to God, we beleive that Jesus was not curcified we beleive that he has been raised to heaven and he will be back. Muslim beleive that Jesus PBUH never claimed that he is God or the son of God, this has been claimed only by Paul (shawel) after the death of Jesus.
3) Mircales done by Jesus PBUH was just mircales given to him by God to proof that he is a messenger from God, Like all messengers Moses, Soliman, David, Joseph....etc; why do you devine only Jesus?!
4) Mary; we beleive that Mary is one of the Great female beleivers, there is one chapter in Quraan named Maryam (Mary in arabic).
5) for the original sin, muslims don't beleive in original sin, everybody is responsible only for his deeds.
6) we beleive that jospel is word of God. You are claiming that bible is only translated to modern languages and hasn't been changed, can you tell me how many gospels in the holly book? and how many gospels discarded? and when they have been discarded? after Jesus death by how many years? and based upon which craiteria they have been discarded?
see muslims beleive in gospel but Jesus gospel, can you tell me where can we find it? I only can get luke's, mathew's, john's and mark's. why I can only trust these 4 and discards barnaba's or juda's or........!!!!!!
may be you still have more beleives that I don't know, so I can't comment on them.
hope that my contribution help.
Thank you all for your thoughts! I enjoy these discussions and appreciate your bluntness and your honest opinion. (Muslimwoman - please know that I do not take anything you say as an insult, and I do hope you feel the same about my comments. I have no desire to insult, inappropriately argue, or show disrespect. I appreciate your insight and hope to continue learning more on this forum.)
I am entering a month or so of craziness with final exams, my wedding, and several other events. Therefore, I may not have much time to post or reply over the next few weeks - I will try my best though. Thank you so much again for your thoughts ... hopefully I will talk with you more soon!
I am entering a month or so of craziness with final exams, my wedding, and several other events. Therefore, I may not have much time to post or reply over the next few weeks - I will try my best though. Thank you so much again for your thoughts ... hopefully I will talk with you more soon!
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
Good luck with your exams, my best wishes for your marriage and I look forward to spaking to you again when the craziness dies down.
Salaam
Is Jesus a Christian?
by Ibn Anwar
by Ibn Anwar
Recently , on paltalk a Christian entered my room “The Traditional Order of Islam” and asked the room about Jesus. He enquired, ” Muslims believe Jesus is a Muslim. Is this supported anywhere in the Bible?” Before I gave any answer I countered,”What do you think Jesus was?” Unhesitantly, he replied,”His name is Jesus CHRIST, he was Christian, duh”. This article is a humble attempt in response to such queries posed by Christians to Muslims.
First and foremost, let us have a look at this term Christ. Ordinary Christians in my experience would immediately define Christ as “saviour” the moment the question,”What is Christ?” pops up. This can’t be farther from the truth Christ simply comes from the Greek Χριστός , transliterated as Christos which have been shortened to Christ. It is simply Greek for the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ , transliterated as Mashiyach(or simply Messiah). The meaning of which is ANNOINTED or chosen one. Muslims ourselves do not hesitate to call Jesus as the Christ, the Messiah or Masih in Arabic since the Qur’an declares :
“…Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God…” (Surah Nisa’, 171)
“The Christ, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger, before whom many of the messengers have passed away..” (Surah Al-Mai’dah, 75)
In the Qur’an the term Masih is unique and is used only for Jesus and no one else, but the opposite is true for the Bible. However, many Christian think that this term Christ in the Bible is unique and is only to be found attached and associated with Jesus. They will then go on to say that this indicates the supreme or even divine position of Jesus. This is probably due to the fact that the title Christ(which is Greek) is NEVER TRANSLATED and RETAINED only in the New Testament, whenever it is applied to Jesus and translated into English as ANNOINTED whenever it happens on other Biblical characters. What’s up with that??? Well, this is one of many “games” Bible translators play with in order to subtlely programme and fool the general audience. The truth of the matter is the term or title Christ is quite a common Biblical expression found throughout the Old Testament. The following are but a few examples where the same word used for Jesus was used for other Biblical personalities:
“Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his annointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.” (KJV, Psalms 18:50)
In the Septuagint(oldest Greek manuscript of the Old Testament) the Greek reads “to xristo autou“(his Christ[rendered annointed in the above translation])
In the Vulgate it reads “christo suo“(his Christ)
To the PAGAN King Cyrus :
“Thus saith the Lord to his annointed, to Cyrus,…” (KJV, Isaiah 45:1)
In the Vulgate it reads “christo meo“(my Christ)
Biblically speaking, if God found it fitting to call a PAGAN, His christ, what’s so special about the title when it is applied to Jesus?
Other instances can be found in Leviticus 4:3, 1 Samuel 24:6 and Lamentations 4:20.
Now that we’ve dealt briefly with the term Christ from which the term Christian is derived, let us move on to the topic proper. Is Jesus a Christian?
Earlier, the questioner implied that Jesus is a Christian simply because he was titled Christ. If this is so then shall we also conclude the same with King Cyrus the pagan King since he was also CHRIST? Is the questioner suggesting that Christians are pagans? Clearly, it is fallacious to say that Jesus was a Christian merely because he is Christ. In addition, he was probably not even called Christ during his three years ministry as scholars agree he either spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. It is likely he was actually called by the Hebrew title Mashiyach.
Let us now get down straight to business. Did Jesus anywhere in the Bible, especially the four canonical Gospels ever called himself Christian? The Christians who know their Bible should affirm the negative. Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ever termed himself Christian or even brought forth the word. If that is the case then where did this term CHRISTIAN originate from?
We are informed by the Bible and its scholars that a certain King Agrippa was about the first recorded individual to ever used the term Christian. It is mentioned:
“Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.” (KJV, Acts 26:28)
We are also informed that King Agrippa was a PAGAN. A pagan invented the word and Paul along with his followers adopted it? How ironic?
Christians the purported followers of Jesus and SUPPOSEDLY monotheists were named as such by a pagan? This is certainly a most curious find. There is absolutely no evidence Biblical or otherwise that Jesus named himself nor his followers Christians. The name is a pagan innovation. If Jesus was not a Christian, then what was he?
I and the rest of my Muslim brethren with authority from the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad
s.a.w. claim that Jesus a.s. was a Muslim. What is the evidence?
First of all, let us define the term Muslim.
The term Muslim like Islam is derived from the trilateral Arabic root S-L-M which means both surrender or submit and peace. The idea is that when you have attained total submission you will achieve a state of peace and serenity. Muslim is basically the “doer” of S-L-M, hence the one who submits. That is its literal definition. Technically, a Muslim is one who surrenders and submits to the will of Almighty God.
The Qur’an says :
“Say: ‘O People of the Book(Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms and between us and you: That we worship none but Allah
; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah
.’ If they turn away, say ye: Bear witness that we are Muslims(bowing down to Allah
’s will)”
Before we continue, let me make it clear that the term “Father” as used by Christians for God is eschewed in Islam.This is due to the connotation it bears(i.e. that God SIRED Jesus or BEGOTTEN not MADE).
Nevertheless, it should be made clear that the term Father as used by Jesus in the Gospels is metaphorical in nature. As Jesus said,”I return to my Father and YOUR Father, to my GOD and YOUR GOD.”(John 20:17)
Three basic features of a Muslim according to the quoted Qur’anic verse:
1. Submits to the will of God.
2. Worships only One God and avoids shirk( associating partners with Him).
3. BOWS down (prostrates) to God
Jesus surrendered and submitted himself to God :
“And he(Jesus) said, Father, all things are possible unto Thee; take away this cup from me(difficulty): nevertheless, not as I will, but as Thou Will.” (KJV, Mark 14:36)
In another place relating about the same incident :
” Saying , Father, if You be willing, remove this cup from me : nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done.” (KJV, Luke 22:42)
“..Your WILL be done, on earth as it is in heaven..” (from the famous “Lord’s prayer” in Matthew and Luke) -Where’s Jesus’ will??
If one has the chance to ask Jesus what his religion is or what he is, I’m sure in accordance with the verses above he will say somewhere along the lines, “my religion is that of submission to Divine Will and I submit to God”. This is a very lengthy definition. One concise word for this in Arabic is Islam or MUSLIM!
Jesus worshipped only ONE God:
When asked about the first and most important commandment Jesus replied :
“Hear O Israel the Lord OUR God the Lord is ONE Lord” (Mark 12:29)
He said OUR God(inclusive of he himself) not just YOUR God and that THE GOD is ONE. This message is an echo of that which is found in the Qur’an in Surah Al-Ikhlas, verse one,”Say: He is Allah
, the One and Only”.
In John Chapter 17, Jesus was praying and supplicating to the Father or God(AS ALWAYS)as stated in verse 1. In verse number three of the chapter he, Jesus declared :
“This is eternal life(this is what salvation is), that they may know YOU(God) THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (KJV, John 17:3)
This is perhaps the clearest of all declarations in the whole New Testament where Jesus affirmed Gods oneness and declaimed any part in Godhood. Here’s a short analogy for those who don’t get the meaning of ONLY. If I have a son and his name is Ahmad and I said,”Ahmad is my only son”. What am I saying? I’m declaring that I have only one son and none other. If someone comes along and says I have two sons, either I’m lying or the person is, since I’ve declared that I have ONLY ONE SON which is singular in nature. Further more, Jesus did not only say ONLY. The singularityand oneness is amphasised further by TRUE, hence ONLY TRUE. If there is another god, then that god must be declared false. For example in Corinthians, Satan is called “the God of the world”. No one in their right mind will say that satan is actually God. The statement is merely metaphorical and when compared with John 17:3, one can easily conclude that Satan though may be called God is a FALSE God.
Jesus literally PROSTRATED to God(a unique Muslim characteristic):
“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless not as I will but as You will.” (Matthew 26:39)
This is yet another evidence of his submission. Jesus fell ON HIS FACE and prayed, just as how the Muslims do it while in prostration to the God of the worlds.
Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς• ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου• ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου• γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου, ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς• τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον• καὶ ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν, ὡς καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀφίεμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν• καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν, ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ. [Ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. ἀμήν.] Our Father, which art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done, in earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, As we forgive them that trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; But deliver us from evil. [For thine is the kingdom, The power, and the glory, For ever and ever.] Amen. To surmise the above “Lord’s prayer” from the Gospel of Matthew Jesus spoke of:
First and foremost, let us have a look at this term Christ. Ordinary Christians in my experience would immediately define Christ as “saviour” the moment the question,”What is Christ?” pops up. This can’t be farther from the truth Christ simply comes from the Greek Χριστός , transliterated as Christos which have been shortened to Christ. It is simply Greek for the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ , transliterated as Mashiyach(or simply Messiah). The meaning of which is ANNOINTED or chosen one. Muslims ourselves do not hesitate to call Jesus as the Christ, the Messiah or Masih in Arabic since the Qur’an declares :
“…Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God…” (Surah Nisa’, 171)
“The Christ, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger, before whom many of the messengers have passed away..” (Surah Al-Mai’dah, 75)
In the Qur’an the term Masih is unique and is used only for Jesus and no one else, but the opposite is true for the Bible. However, many Christian think that this term Christ in the Bible is unique and is only to be found attached and associated with Jesus. They will then go on to say that this indicates the supreme or even divine position of Jesus. This is probably due to the fact that the title Christ(which is Greek) is NEVER TRANSLATED and RETAINED only in the New Testament, whenever it is applied to Jesus and translated into English as ANNOINTED whenever it happens on other Biblical characters. What’s up with that??? Well, this is one of many “games” Bible translators play with in order to subtlely programme and fool the general audience. The truth of the matter is the term or title Christ is quite a common Biblical expression found throughout the Old Testament. The following are but a few examples where the same word used for Jesus was used for other Biblical personalities:
“Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his annointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.” (KJV, Psalms 18:50)
In the Septuagint(oldest Greek manuscript of the Old Testament) the Greek reads “to xristo autou“(his Christ[rendered annointed in the above translation])
In the Vulgate it reads “christo suo“(his Christ)
To the PAGAN King Cyrus :
“Thus saith the Lord to his annointed, to Cyrus,…” (KJV, Isaiah 45:1)
In the Vulgate it reads “christo meo“(my Christ)
Biblically speaking, if God found it fitting to call a PAGAN, His christ, what’s so special about the title when it is applied to Jesus?
Other instances can be found in Leviticus 4:3, 1 Samuel 24:6 and Lamentations 4:20.
Now that we’ve dealt briefly with the term Christ from which the term Christian is derived, let us move on to the topic proper. Is Jesus a Christian?
Earlier, the questioner implied that Jesus is a Christian simply because he was titled Christ. If this is so then shall we also conclude the same with King Cyrus the pagan King since he was also CHRIST? Is the questioner suggesting that Christians are pagans? Clearly, it is fallacious to say that Jesus was a Christian merely because he is Christ. In addition, he was probably not even called Christ during his three years ministry as scholars agree he either spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. It is likely he was actually called by the Hebrew title Mashiyach.
Let us now get down straight to business. Did Jesus anywhere in the Bible, especially the four canonical Gospels ever called himself Christian? The Christians who know their Bible should affirm the negative. Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ever termed himself Christian or even brought forth the word. If that is the case then where did this term CHRISTIAN originate from?
We are informed by the Bible and its scholars that a certain King Agrippa was about the first recorded individual to ever used the term Christian. It is mentioned:
“Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.” (KJV, Acts 26:28)
We are also informed that King Agrippa was a PAGAN. A pagan invented the word and Paul along with his followers adopted it? How ironic?
Christians the purported followers of Jesus and SUPPOSEDLY monotheists were named as such by a pagan? This is certainly a most curious find. There is absolutely no evidence Biblical or otherwise that Jesus named himself nor his followers Christians. The name is a pagan innovation. If Jesus was not a Christian, then what was he?
I and the rest of my Muslim brethren with authority from the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad
First of all, let us define the term Muslim.
The term Muslim like Islam is derived from the trilateral Arabic root S-L-M which means both surrender or submit and peace. The idea is that when you have attained total submission you will achieve a state of peace and serenity. Muslim is basically the “doer” of S-L-M, hence the one who submits. That is its literal definition. Technically, a Muslim is one who surrenders and submits to the will of Almighty God.
The Qur’an says :
“Say: ‘O People of the Book(Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms and between us and you: That we worship none but Allah
Before we continue, let me make it clear that the term “Father” as used by Christians for God is eschewed in Islam.This is due to the connotation it bears(i.e. that God SIRED Jesus or BEGOTTEN not MADE).
Nevertheless, it should be made clear that the term Father as used by Jesus in the Gospels is metaphorical in nature. As Jesus said,”I return to my Father and YOUR Father, to my GOD and YOUR GOD.”(John 20:17)
Three basic features of a Muslim according to the quoted Qur’anic verse:
1. Submits to the will of God.
2. Worships only One God and avoids shirk( associating partners with Him).
3. BOWS down (prostrates) to God
Jesus surrendered and submitted himself to God :
“And he(Jesus) said, Father, all things are possible unto Thee; take away this cup from me(difficulty): nevertheless, not as I will, but as Thou Will.” (KJV, Mark 14:36)
In another place relating about the same incident :
” Saying , Father, if You be willing, remove this cup from me : nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done.” (KJV, Luke 22:42)
“..Your WILL be done, on earth as it is in heaven..” (from the famous “Lord’s prayer” in Matthew and Luke) -Where’s Jesus’ will??
If one has the chance to ask Jesus what his religion is or what he is, I’m sure in accordance with the verses above he will say somewhere along the lines, “my religion is that of submission to Divine Will and I submit to God”. This is a very lengthy definition. One concise word for this in Arabic is Islam or MUSLIM!
Jesus worshipped only ONE God:
When asked about the first and most important commandment Jesus replied :
“Hear O Israel the Lord OUR God the Lord is ONE Lord” (Mark 12:29)
He said OUR God(inclusive of he himself) not just YOUR God and that THE GOD is ONE. This message is an echo of that which is found in the Qur’an in Surah Al-Ikhlas, verse one,”Say: He is Allah
In John Chapter 17, Jesus was praying and supplicating to the Father or God(AS ALWAYS)as stated in verse 1. In verse number three of the chapter he, Jesus declared :
“This is eternal life(this is what salvation is), that they may know YOU(God) THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (KJV, John 17:3)
This is perhaps the clearest of all declarations in the whole New Testament where Jesus affirmed Gods oneness and declaimed any part in Godhood. Here’s a short analogy for those who don’t get the meaning of ONLY. If I have a son and his name is Ahmad and I said,”Ahmad is my only son”. What am I saying? I’m declaring that I have only one son and none other. If someone comes along and says I have two sons, either I’m lying or the person is, since I’ve declared that I have ONLY ONE SON which is singular in nature. Further more, Jesus did not only say ONLY. The singularityand oneness is amphasised further by TRUE, hence ONLY TRUE. If there is another god, then that god must be declared false. For example in Corinthians, Satan is called “the God of the world”. No one in their right mind will say that satan is actually God. The statement is merely metaphorical and when compared with John 17:3, one can easily conclude that Satan though may be called God is a FALSE God.
Jesus literally PROSTRATED to God(a unique Muslim characteristic):
“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me, nevertheless not as I will but as You will.” (Matthew 26:39)
This is yet another evidence of his submission. Jesus fell ON HIS FACE and prayed, just as how the Muslims do it while in prostration to the God of the worlds.
God’s holiness, God’s kingdom, God’s will on earth and in heaven, begged for sustenance, begged for mercy and forgiveness, protection from evil and God’s Sublime and Everlasting Glory. In all of these, Jesus singled out God and no one else. In Short, he declared total subordinance and surrender to God. Is it not plain enough?
Conclusion :
It is clear from the evidences and arguments adduced, Jesus is definitely a Muslim and certainly not a Christian.
“How strange that in every special case one praises one’s own way. If Islam means ’surrender to God’s will’ it’s Islam that we all live and die.”
Interesting words from Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe.
This article is best ended with the following Qur’anic quotation:
Say [O you who believe!]: “We believe in Allah
Wallahu’alam bisawab
Peace and blessings of Allah
Wabillahi Taufiq Wal Hidayah Wassalamu’alaikum Warahmatullah.
Unveiling Christianity › Login
Bruce Michael
Well-Known Member
Greetings Aidyl
That's all very well, but let our dear humanity make up their own minds without threats of beatings, fines, jail and death.
Michael Kirby on religious freedom and the law
Religious freedom in Malaysia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kind Regards,
Br.Bruce
That's all very well, but let our dear humanity make up their own minds without threats of beatings, fines, jail and death.
Michael Kirby on religious freedom and the law
Lina Joy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Religious freedom in Malaysia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Kind Regards,
Br.Bruce
dailogue is the best
New member
salam
we do believe in Chrisianity as on e of the greatest religions in the world..
.we do believe in Jesus{pbuh} as a prophet sent by Allah to the people of Israel...we do believe in the virgin birth of him....
we believe that Mary{pbuh} was one of the purest women in the earth...we believe Jesus {pbuh}is a prophet and we dont believe in the trinity .....
we do believe that Jesus was sent with the Bilble....bt also we do believe that the actual Bible is nt the real Words of God as there are many versions...we believe it had been corrupted after Jesus ....
we respect Christianity and Christians as the are considered the people of the Book {ahl kitab}....and they are considered the closest to Muslims according to the Quran itself...
we believe that Jesus{pbuh} revalation was before Muhamed{pbuh} s ,and we believe that the Bible mentions the coming of the last prophet Muhamed...and most of all, any Muslim who doesnt believe in Jesus isnt considered a Muslim....
we do believe in Chrisianity as on e of the greatest religions in the world..
.we do believe in Jesus{pbuh} as a prophet sent by Allah to the people of Israel...we do believe in the virgin birth of him....
we believe that Mary{pbuh} was one of the purest women in the earth...we believe Jesus {pbuh}is a prophet and we dont believe in the trinity .....
we do believe that Jesus was sent with the Bilble....bt also we do believe that the actual Bible is nt the real Words of God as there are many versions...we believe it had been corrupted after Jesus ....
we respect Christianity and Christians as the are considered the people of the Book {ahl kitab}....and they are considered the closest to Muslims according to the Quran itself...
we believe that Jesus{pbuh} revalation was before Muhamed{pbuh} s ,and we believe that the Bible mentions the coming of the last prophet Muhamed...and most of all, any Muslim who doesnt believe in Jesus isnt considered a Muslim....
Hello everyone, believe me i come in peace... but i have a question for the quote above.
I cannot quote the Bible here as you believe it is corrupted. But is not God(Allah) not perfect? To send Jesus to deliver a message to his people and then have it corrupted suggests that maybe God (Allah) being all perfect made a mistake sending Jesus in the first place... and had to rectify to problem...
The Quran says that the books of Moses, the Psalms, and the gospel were all given by God.
"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).
PSALMS - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).
Also,
"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).
Do you see where i am going with this?
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
"For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64).
When and where was the Bible corrupted, since the Qu'ran says that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are from Allah and Allah's words cannot be changed?
I respect Muslims too...
Hence my question above...
dailogue is the best
New member
Hello Azure
I think your question is a very good one, and it comes up so often.
The thing is this, Jesus, peace be upon him, was sent to the children of Israel at that time. The Injil (Gospel) that was given to him was so that he would guide the children of Israel to the right path.
So his job was to deliver that message to his people at that time, and indeed he did his job.
Just like all the prophets before him, they were just sent to their people at different places and times until the one final message would come. As Muslims we believe the Qur'an is that final message and that Muhammad is the last messenger, hence why we believe god will protect the Qur'an. Because in this case it is meant to be for ALL mankind at ALL time and place. So as you can see that is a very important reason as why the Qur'an needs to be unchanged.
Hope that was clear
islamis4u
Vision To Spread Islam
I would have same reply what sister 'Muslim woman' have said, with one more thing that Jesus (pbuh) heal the born blinds but with Allah's permission
We do not believe in Christianity because Christianity depends on Bible and Let me make it very clear to every one, that this Bible which the Christians believe to be the word of God, is not the ‘Injeel’ which we Muslims believe, was revealed to Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him. This Bible according to us, it may contain the words of God - But it also contains words of Prophets, words of historians, it contains absurdities, obscenity, as well as innumerable scientific errors. If there are scientific points mentioned in the Bible - there are possibilities - why not? It may be part of the word of God, in the Bible. But what about the scientific errors ? - What about the unscientific portions? - Can you attribute this to God ? want to make it very clear to my Christian brothers and sisters - The purpose of my presentation on ‘Bible and science’ is not to hurt any Christian’s feeling. If while presenting, if I hurt your feelings, I do apologize in advance. The purpose is only to point out, that a God’s Revelation cannot contain scientific errors. because it was changed you know how many testament you have. Quran is one and only only one no new version or old version and as Quran is true word of God so we believe in and in Quran Allah Forbids us to say Jesus (pbuh) a son of God.
I can prove you that bible have so may scientific errors and which Quran do not have one.
As Jesus Christ, peace be upon him said… ‘Search ye the truth, and the truth shall free you.’ You have the Old Testament, we have the New Testament - Now you should follow the Last and Final Testament, which is the Glorious Qur’an.
. Let us analyse what the Bible says about modern science - First we deal with Astronomy., The Bible speaks about the creation of the universe. In the beginning, 1st Book, Book of Genesis, 1st Ch., it is mentioned - It says… ‘Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, in six days and talks about a evening and a morning, referring to a 24 - hour day. Today scientists tell us, that the universe cannot be created in a 24 hour period of six days. Qur’an too speaks about six ‘ayyams’. The Arabic word singular is ‘yaum’ plural is ‘ayyam’. It can either mean a day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, an ‘yaum’, an epoch. Scientists say we have no objection in agreeing that the universe - it could have been created in 6 very long periods. Point No.2 - Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ enesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - It is unscientific. Further, the, Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day? Point No..4, Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’ Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sun – It is unscientific. Point No. 5, the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day.How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ? Point No.6, that the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’ And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses – Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have. There are certain people who try and reconciliate, and say that the six days mentioned in the Bible, it actually refers to epocs - like the Qur’an long periods - not six, 24 hour day. It is illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly states 24 hours, it indicates. But even if I use the concordance approach - no problem. I agree with your illogical argument - Yet they will only be able to solve the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day ‘light’ and 3rd day ‘earth.’ The remaining four, yet they cannot solve. Some further say that… ‘If it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?’ I say ‘Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs - You cannot have the cake and eat it, both. If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining 4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific.
islamis4u
Vision To Spread Islam
I will say s ame what muslimwoman said by adding that Jesus(pbuh) healed the born linds with the permission of God.
. If there are scientific points mentioned in the Bible - there are possibilities - why not? It may be part of the word of God, in the Bible. But what about the scientific errors ? - What about the unscientific portions? - Can you attribute this to God ? want to make it very clear to my Christian brothers and sisters - The purpose of my presentation on ‘Bible and science’ is not to hurt any Christian’s feeling. If while presenting, if I hurt your feelings, I do apologize in advance. The purpose is only to point out, that a God’s Revelation cannot contain scientific errors. As Jesus Christ, peace be upon him said… ‘Search ye the truth, and the truth shall free you.’ We have the Old Testament, we have the New Testament - Now you should follow the Last and Final Testament, which is the Glorious Qur’an.
. Let us analyse what the Bible says about modern science - First we deal with Astronomy., The Bible speaks about the creation of the universe. In the beginning, 1st Book, Book of Genesis, 1st Ch., it is mentioned - It says… ‘Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth, in six days and talks about a evening and a morning, referring to a 24 - hour day. Today scientists tell us, that the universe cannot be created in a 24 hour period of six days. Qur’an too speaks about six ‘ayyams’. The Arabic word singular is ‘yaum’ plural is ‘ayyam’. It can either mean a day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, an ‘yaum’, an epoch. Scientists say we have no objection in agreeing that the universe - it could have been created in 6 very long periods. Point No.2 - Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ enesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - It is unscientific. Further, the, Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day? Point No..4, Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’ Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sun – It is unscientific. Point No. 5, the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day.How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ? Point No.6, that the Bible says in Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses No.16, that…‘God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night. The actual translation, if you go to the Hebrew text, it is ‘lamps’…‘Lamps having lights of its own.’ And that you will come to know better, if you read both the Verses – Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse. 16, as well as 17. Verse No.17 says…‘And Almighty God placed them in the firmament, to give light to the earth… To give light to the earth.’ Indicating, that Sun and the Moon has its own light - which is in contradiction with established scientific knowledge that we have. There are certain people who try and reconciliate, and say that the six days mentioned in the Bible, it actually refers to epocs - like the Qur’an long periods - not six, 24 hour day. It is illogical - you read in the Bible, evening, morning - It clearly states 24 hours, it indicates. But even if I use the concordance approach - no problem. I agree with your illogical argument - Yet they will only be able to solve the 1st scientific error of 6 days creation, and second, of first day ‘light’ and 3rd day ‘earth.’ The remaining four, yet they cannot solve. Some further say that… ‘If it is a 24-hour period, why cannot the vegetables survive for one 24 hour day without sunlight?’ I say ‘Fine - If you say that the vegetables were created before the sun, and can survive for one 24-hour day, I have got no objection. But you cannot say the days mentioned are 24 hours as well as epochs - You cannot have the cake and eat it, both. If you say it is long period, you solve Point No.1 and 3, the remaining 4 are yet there. If you say the days are 24 hours day, you solve only Point No.5 - the remaining 5 are yet there - It becomes unscientific.
this is only one error i produce right now for you but their are so many.
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
islamis4u,
you don't understand how the Torah works. in particular, you don't understand how genesis works. it's not an astronomy text. the fact that we're talking about "days" before the sun and moon are Created ought to be a bit of a clue that this isn't supposed to be read literally. and any of the accusations you level at the Torah could be aimed just as easily at the Qur'an. this is one of the most ridiculous arguments i've ever seen.
b'shalom
bananabrain
you don't understand how the Torah works. in particular, you don't understand how genesis works. it's not an astronomy text. the fact that we're talking about "days" before the sun and moon are Created ought to be a bit of a clue that this isn't supposed to be read literally. and any of the accusations you level at the Torah could be aimed just as easily at the Qur'an. this is one of the most ridiculous arguments i've ever seen.
b'shalom
bananabrain
bob x
Well-Known Member
This is, of course, the EXACT SAME WORD that is used in Genesis (the Hebrew plural, yowmiym, is formed with a suffix instead of a prefix, that's the only difference).
islamis4u
Vision To Spread Islam
Give a precise answer and do not say that you know or not okay!!!!
secondly i do not said you should reply this ridiculous post, i have been seeing your posts to my posts from top to bottom every now and then you disrespect me or my country.
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