What is the Christian perspective of Muhammed (pbuh)?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by dailogue is the best, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello everybody,


    I m a Muslim. I believe in Moses and Jesus (peace be upn them all), and a Muslim is not considesred a Muslim if he/she doesnt believe in the previous prophets.

    I would like to konw how the Christian look at Muhammed (pbuh)? do they consider him God's prophet? and what do they mean when they say that Muhammed is the founder of Islam? What is the Christian perspective of Muhammed?

    with my best wishes
    sis, DB
     
  2. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    2
    There are many perspectives.:) ......or at least I will say I have my own personal perspective on it. I might wait for others to have their say first......then I'll know how I might position myself with regards to the topic. You see, my perspective would not just be a response just to Islam but the many, many perspectives on Islam within the Christian camp. My perspective is not all independent, but depends a lot on that of others. I like making comparisons lol. We are a collective of individuals.
     
  3. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would wager you'll get a lot of different answers, depending on who you ask. I haven't heard a consensus among Christians or even single denominations on the matter.

    Personally, I believe Muhammed was someone who was in touch with God in a special way- whether you call that a prophet, or seer, or sage, or whatever. I don't delve much into prophecy per se, so I don't know if my definition matches yours. But I do believe that like many other people who had extraordinary personal experiences of God and were called to share them with others (including those outside the Western traditions- the Buddha, Lao-Tzu, etc.), Muhammed was as well.

    I think what is meant when someone says Muhammed is the founder of Islam, is that Islam is a religion that began as a separate, distinctive faith as a result of Muhammed's teachings. I guess you could say Jesus is the founder of Christianity, which was continued in the early days chiefly through the work of Paul.

    At any rate, that is my take on it.
     
  4. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    he is viewed as a false prophet, an anti-christ, and being a deceiver of the gospel which is summed up in John 3:16, and will be judged by Jesus Christ for adding or taking away words from the gospel and leading people astray.
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,279
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    Namaste DB,

    What a wonderful range of responses. I also believe he will be judged by Jesus, but quite favorably for the millions of peaceable folks that Muhammed (pbuh) has brought closer to G!d! In a similar way I believe he'll look unfavorably at millions of Christians who don't love their neighbors or themselves.

    If you'll indulge me, consider starting a thread in Islam asking what Muslims feel about the Bahai and their prophet, I'll bet you get similar responses to that question there as you get to this question here.

    I honor the prophet and the religion which grew of his teachings. Don't agree with the laws, oppression and violence which has been perpetrated by some sects though.
     
  6. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yep, I ditto that. Kind of like even though I am a Christian, I don't agree with the Inquisition.
     
  7. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    1
    I doubt people who aren't Muslim think about Muhammad much at all. We know almost nothing about him, or we might think of him being some Omar Sharrif-like character in the Arabian Nights tales. It's pretty easy to dismiss your prophet as a mythologized, if historical, character. He's not our dude.

    Chris
     
  8. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    since 9/11 i would have to disagree with you there, in what way is a different story.
     
  9. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,924
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yeah, we're thinking, wondering about Islam and Muslims, but aside from the Danish cartoons and that Teddy Bear incident I don't get the sense that there is much reference or interest in Muhammad.

    Chris
     
  10. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    I am a Christian. I accept the efforts and acceptance of God's will by Moses as example for all Christians to try and emmulate. But Moses was not a prophet. He was a leader of people, and a follower of His God. Jesus was not a prophet. He is the Son of God.

    Muhammed is credited with dictating the Qu'ran, and establishing a Monotheistic faith among the people of the Middle East, known as Beduoins and Arabians, which caught on with the Persians (even though the Persians originally had a monotheistic faith called Zorastrianism). Some say he lead his people to Islam, but that begs closer scrutiny, since he was in a running battle with his "people" for the latter half of his life, and eventually died from it. It wasn't until almost 200 years later that his teachings finally took root, and that was at the hands of desperate kings who saw the entirety of the land being torn apart by fuedal wars, ethnic cleansing, and loss of revenue. The new "islam faith" along with the perspective of wealth, galvanized desperate men into becoming soldiers and "spreading" the faith across Europe to the "infidels" while at the same time relieving said poor souls of their gold and jewels, and women. This of course was in conjunction with the "Christian West" determined to do the same to the "moors" and Middle East.

    Muhammed's title as "prophet" is questionable, since the only prophecy he made was the fall of Rome (while it was falling).

    But, it can be said, he established a faith of monotheism among a people that previously had polytheistic tendancies, and he borrowed from both the Judeo/Christian faith, as well as Zorastrianist faith, and local cultural morals, to found the Islamic faith.

    So, Muhammed is the founder of Islam.

    v/r

    Q
     
  11. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello everybody,

    thanks brethren for your replies.....Thank you Will for caring about my emotions...I appreciated it too much.....Actually, when I asked this question, I was having a pre-idea about your answers....there is no harm in that.....I needed to know, and thank you for interacting with me

    When, for example, a Christian asks about the Islamic view of Jesus, he/she will be astonished to find out that we dont believe in the Trinity, and Jesus's crucification, though we belive in his prophethood,his virgin birth, his miricales....

    No, problem if we differ....the essence for is not to attack, but to discuss, and that it is the best thing we are doing in this forum....

    If we are truth seekers, we have to be objective, and not take judgments for granted...

    Muhammed(pbuh) faced mockery since began spreading Islam. The people of Arabia who refused his message accused him of being mad, possessed, poet, and soothsayer..........God says in the Quran:" When they see thee, they treat thee no otherwise than mockery:"Is this the one whom God has sent as an apostle?"(25:41)

    whenever I remember the story of Taif tribe with the prophet, my eyes filled with tears.Also, the story is a great support for me in trying times. Muhmmed(pbuh) went to the Taif tribe to call them to Islam...the people there refused Muhammed's call, and they asked their children to throw stones on Muhammed. Muhammed, all bleeding, tired, exhausted, prayed:" Oh! God! forgive them because the do not know"

    I ll be glad if you discuss with me certain events about Muhammed's life that leads you to create that picture about him......please, let us be objective...


    if you believe Muhammed was a false prophet, give me your reason

    if you believe he is sensual, give me your reason...

    If you believe anything on him, please present me a reason so that we can value our judgments...

    thank you again for everyboby,
    sis DB
     
  12. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,906
    Likes Received:
    0
    Out of curiosity, DB, what is the Islamic definition of a prophet? I wonder, because it seems that it is broader than the Christian one. That is why I don't know that I'd call Muhammed a prophet, but I say he was in connection with God- a saint, perhaps? A mystic (one who directly experiences God)?

    In general, I think Christians believe that the prophets are those that foretold the coming of the Messiah and so forth. I suppose the author of Revelations would also be a prophet. But all spiritual leaders (i.e., Moses) are not prophets in the Christian tradition. It is not better or worse to be a prophet than a different type of spiritual leader. We are taught that prophecy is but one spiritual gift of many, and all are equal in God's eyes-- we all make up different parts of the Body of God.

    I think you'll find some Christians who believe Muhammed was a "false prophet" because he did not teach that Jesus was the Son of God. For most Christians, getting rid of the cruxifiction and Jesus' divinity doesn't leave a lot left. Yes, Jesus' message was very important, and His life, but for most Christians, the heart of their faith is Jesus' willing sacrifice of Himself. It is a mystery of a God that loves us so much, that He was willing to limit Himself in order to bridge the gap between humanity and the Divine, to lay Himself down for us.

    Other Christians will think Muhammed was not "false" but was not a "prophet," but rather a spiritual leader. Personally, I don't try to work most of it out, but I do respect much of what I've read of Muhammed's teachings in the Qu'ran, and from what I understand, much like Christianity began as a fringe element and then was taken up by the governmental powers at the time, so too was Islam. And of course any time a religion becomes interwoven with governmental power, it warps them both- could be for better or worse, but both change (and generally, it seems for the worse).
     
  13. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    2
    Not all of us......Actually, some of us (in the contemporary world) were forewarned of the coming of Muslims into our lives, so many of us had already heard the message of Islam by the time we started interacting with Muslims.....:eek:

    As you have probably noticed, a lot of this stuff isn't new to us. Some parts of the world don't have readily available access to the Internet. Christians don't hear of Islam and Muslims don't hear about Christianity. Even if they do, they get a stereotyped version of it.

    The Trinity was a concept that became prominent in Christianity due to the Nicaean Creed, but it was a product of the politics of the time and was actually never essential to Christianity. It arose out of an interpretation of the Gospel of John which said that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," and other things like, "the Father and I are one." From around the second-century onwards, new Christians (more and more predominantly Gentile and not Jew) probably looked at these passages and thought, "ah this is the Gospel of John saying Jesus is God."

    The idea of Logos actually came from a Hellenistic Jewish philosopher called Philo, who proposed the idea of thinking of a so-called "divine plan of God," the Logos. The Wikipedia article on him describes his concept as a "blueprint for the world", a governing plan. The author of the Gospel of John decided to use Philo's idea of Logos. The idea that Jesus was the Logos may be a misinterpretation of the words of the Gospel of John. Where it says "without him nothing has been made that has been made" (John 1:3) doesn't necessarily say that it was Jesus who created the world. The "him" could be seen as much like a honorific title for God's divine plan (the Logos), a personification of the Logos as something that was more than just a plan. Being of God, it had a life of its own. It could be compared to the use of "We" in Genesis and the Quran as an honorific title for God.

    While it is true it says that "the Logos became flesh and dwelt among us," this doesn't necessarily refer to Jesus, but the Phenomenon of the Logos, the Phenomenon of the Divine Program becoming flesh. So it is not really Jesus becoming flesh, but the Logos, the Divine Program becoming flesh and being manifested in the world. When Jesus called himself the Way, Truth and the Life or said "believe in me" he was probably not referring to himself, but the Logos, the Divine Program. He was instructing us to believe in the Divine Program, which had been played out in his own life and sayings.

    Philo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But when the 2nd century Christians read the Gospel of John, they probably misunderstood, leading eventually to the Trinity concept. Because of the politics of the fourth century, those denouncing the Trinity are seen as traitors, or enemies of the cause of Christianity, because the Trinity concept saved Christianity from Arianism. I thought the following link might be helpful.

    MyJewishLearning.com - Ideas & Belief: Christianity in Context

    Denunciation of non-Trinitarianism as heresy is due to the historical perception that anyone not supporting the Trinity is "anti-Christ" because he disregards the advent of the Nicaean Creed that was so important to the fourth century Christians because their beliefs were threatened by Arianism. Every community, and in this case a religious community, has its struggles. The Trinity conflict was a struggle that the fourth century Christians experienced. It was important to the Christians at the time. Christianity was under threat of being divided. Ironically, though, Christianity has become divided anyway, so I no longer see the point of insisting that the Trinity is essential because it hasn't united Christians collectively. It has served more to divide than to unite. The Trinity concept hasn't really helped Christianity. It has been a curse more than a blessing. Having arose out of the struggles of the fourth century, I think it has become an anachronism. It has become part of the historical baggage that Christians churches must carry.

    This is one of the reasons why Islam might be seen as anti-Christ, but the Trinity not being essential, the Trinity being convenient for Christians of a particular time and place, the idea of Islam being anti-Christ is itself non-essential. It may be that Trinitarian Christians simply feel oppressed and persecuted by anything that de-emphasises or even denounces the Trinity.

    I like it, especially, when Christians and Muslims can get beyond the usual dogmatic arguments about the value of one faith over the other. It's understandable that a Muslim believes the Trinity is essential to Christianity, often because there are so many Christians that affirm it. Other times the Muslim actually wants to believe that the Trinity is essential to Christianity, because then he can use that to show why Christianity has expired and outlived its validity and Islam is the next update.:D

    But hopefully we can get beyond such traditional lines of argument, recognise Christianity is many different things to many different people and perhaps come to an understanding that yeah, maybe Mohammed was indeed sent by God and does serve a purpose in this world, but that Christians can continue being Christian.

    Not sure what you mean by sensual.
     
  14. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is not true.
     
  15. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anti-Christ or we say Dajal will come near the day of Judgment first. Second Muslims and Nouzbillah Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was not the enemy of Jesus(pbuh), rather Holy Prophet(pbuh) Came to testify Jesus(pbuh). You know Jesus is named 500% more time then the word Muhammad(pbuh) in Quran. Jesus (pbuh) when ever discussed in Quran it is always for praising the Jesus(pbuh). Was Nouzbillah Prophet(pbuh) then the enemy of Christian? No. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came to testify Jesus(pbuh). Can anybody or you BlaznFattyz tell me how many times Name Marry is used in the Bible? its only 18 times. In Quran it is used 32 times, we also have a Chp Marry for the Praising of Marry or Maryam(pbuh). A Muslim is not a Muslim who do not believe in Jesus(pbuh). A Muslim can never ever can dream to say Nouzbillah bad for Jesus(pbuh). Rather we praise them, we say Jesus(pbuh) was the Greatest Messenger sent from God. He heal the born blinds and leopards with the permission of God. Islam is the only non Christian religion which says May Peace and Blessing of God on be on Jesus(pbuh). We show more respect to him then Christian itself.

    How can Islam or Our beloved Holy Prophet(pbuh) can be Nouzbillah Enemy or deceiver?

    Rather what you are saying that words will be taken from Gospel instead Words of God have been take out from your own book.
     
  16. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    2
    But how would you measure respect? Respect is a quality not a quantity. You don't assign numbers to respect. Respect can only be described and depicted. I can't say that you have 5 volts of respect for a prophet and then say that I have 10 volts of respect for him. What then, makes 1 volt of respect? I cannot therefore say that I have more respect than you because numbers don't really mean much when we're talking about respect.

    Likewise, respect for a prophet or spiritual leader in a religion isn't determined by how many verses you have referring to him. It's the quality of the description or depiction that the Text or adherents of a faith that determine the amount of respect one has for a spiritual leader. It's more conducive to say whether a person has been rude or arrogant than to say that a Text has more verses referring to a spiritual leader. Does the Text, for example, respect the prophet's mission or vocation?

    The Christian Texts not only preserve the life and sayings of Jesus, but also that of "apostles" like Paul, Peter, James and John, who continued his mission. Jesus' words were of course, of primary importance, but the words of Paul, Peter, James and John were also important. They were of secondary importance, but still quite valuable because they added both understanding and meaning to the mission Jesus had given the early Christians. It was the words of Paul, Peter, James and John, as well as those of Jesus, that made Christianity what it was and what it was becoming.

    Despite their importance in Christianity, the Quran doesn't mention them. Paul, Peter, James and John were the spiritual leaders of the Early Church. We take an interest not just in the life and sayings of Jesus, but also these four people.

    The fact that their words were of secondary importance didn't diminish their authority. Jesus appointed them. Their words were valid as long as they were building on top of the foundation that already existed (Jesus). As long as they were building on top of that foundation, anything they said carries authority.

    I wouldn't, however, be interested so much in what words the New Testament might be missing, as Christianity has no essential Text. The New Testament simply records the life and sayings of Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and John. The New Testament is simply the most recommended Text for understanding Christianity.:) It is not essential, just highly recommended!!! Apart from these five people, there were others as well. Over the last 2,000 years, Christianity had a continuous stream of spiritual leaders, each adapting Christianity to the time and place in which they lived. Looking back at the life and sayings of Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and John is what allows us to relive the first-century experience, despite historical baggage and 2,000 years separating us. Some churches have not kept up with the times. The mission, goal and expectation is the same, but the approach to life, dealing with the world, relationships, social connections and politics must be different. It must be appropriate for the time and place.

    The important question is, how does Mohammed and the Quran build on top of the foundation (Jesus)?
     
  17. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2008
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0

    You said about that how we attribute ourself to Jesus(pbuh) or what we belief is important. I will ask you where we said bad to Jesus(pbuh). We always respect Him(pbuh). You know what is the first miracle Jesus(pbuh) performed according to the Bible? Changing water into a wine!!!

    That is the respect im talking about what miracle Jesus(pbuh) according to Quran performed was the Speaking the truth when He(pbuh) can't speak. This is respect. About taking out of words i may have to say to you or tell you some examples, look you said they added the work then i must say that you by your ownself is saying that its not true word of God i agree that the adding things according to you are right? okay na?
    For you which is best thing to prefer you would say the word of God okay then Paul, if you have to choose? okay? According to you that Jesus(PBUH) was nouzbillah God in human form okay? Paul was not god okay? Then i must ask you where Jesus(pbuh) say im God or worship me? A human can be you misunderstood but not God.
     
  18. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    no you dont really, and you really dont know much about him or who christ is or all the prophets for that matter, when your text is deficient regarding these important things, so your stance based on only what you know thru islamic studies is limited, unless you read text outside of the koran.
     
  19. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    2
    Sometimes God doesn't have to say anything. Sometimes human minds are adequate in knowing and understanding the work that he wants them to do, without being told. After Jesus was gone, Paul, Peter, James and John continued his mission using his life and sayings to guide them.

    There was no "science" or "magic formula" telling them what to do. They relied on their natural intuition to guide them. Jesus' life and sayings were what gave them direction and purpose. But in the meantime, they needed to tell others what to do with themselves. So the New Testament recorded not just what Jesus said and did, but also what the apostles said and did. We needed two examples on how to live: Jesus himself and the lives of his disciples, apostles and early followers. It is like when you use the hadiths to interpret the Quran.

    God had already given all of them inspiration to get started. So here I am not really giving Paul, Peter, James and John all of the credit. God created them, he created their minds and hearts, he sent Jesus to them and who in turn, by what he said and did, gave them the inspiration to do what they did. It was really God who conceived it all and set it all in motion. He didn't need to say and do that much after He had sent Jesus. God put them all up to it.

    Paul, Peter, James and John were secondary messengers in this regard. Sure it wasn't God speaking, but God had sent them too, indirectly. God had implicitly sent anyone who built over the foundation that had been laid (Jesus). That means that if I build over the foundation, God has implicitly sent me too.

    Hey, islamis4u. I didn't say Jesus was God in my post. Nor did I say anything about worshipping him!!! I just talked about how the life and sayings of Jesus and the apostles were important in Christianity. I don't consider this line of argument important at this stage. Please remind me later if it becomes relevant.:)

    By the way, what's nouzbillah?
     
  20. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello everybody,

    I discovered that Christians know almost nothing about the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh), but some stereotypes..:confused:..I was expecting a discussion about his life, certain events, or his teachings....Shockingly, I found out that you dont know a lot about Muhammed, and if you know something, it out of truth, and just stereotypes far from any citations or proofs.....please, take some time, read about him and discuss me....

    Hello, sis, path of one

    A prophet is the one who was sent by God to call people to His Way. Moses, Jesus, Muhammed are all prophets, and there are many others whom the Quran mentioned. when we say one is a prophet, that is to say, he is sent by God's order....not out of his choice...So, Moses was a prophet because it is God who sent him to the people of Israel...can I ask a question: in what sense you make a difference between a spiritual leader and a prophet?

    Hello, bro, saltmeister

    thanks for the clarification.....I know how the issue of Trinity is controvesial among the Christian themselves.....

    concerning your last question about what i meant by "if you believe the prophet is sensual"...Actually,through my reading to some Orientalists writings and movies, I unfortunately discovered that they give the prophet Muhammed a picture of a man of lusts and desires.that what i meant. you know? They are attacking blindly and immorally,unfortunately.....


    In reality, I m thinking: What the result shall I come with from this post?Are the Christians ignorant about the prophet Muhammed? Do they care to know about him or not?........................:confused:.just questions, and I m wondering :confused:because honestly I was expecting a lot of discussion and questions based on your readings about Muhammed(pbuh), but I found nothing.....

    with my best wishes
    sis, DB
     

Share This Page