The Trinity, from the JW view.
- Thread starter 17th Angel
- Start date
17th Angel
לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
- Messages
- 9,437
- Reaction score
- 10
- Points
- 0
Beautiful..
Thanks brother, day by day, that's how I'll take it, that may even go to week by week, month by month, year by year... But at least I can say I tried. I don't think it is chess, but I know what you mean.....
well those with ears may hear...
Don Miguel Ruiz, Four Agreements -Agreement number 2
Of course what others say and do is also affected by our reality, our dream, as it is our perception of what they say and do that we react to, if we so choose.
M
mee
Guest
it does indeed , i am part of a GREAT CROWD and here they are in REVELATION 7;9-10
And look what they are doing with there lives , they are waving their symbolic palm branches to welcome the king that the one on the throne has given kingship too.
and they are all in unity even though they are from all nations , now that must come about because they are worshiping a God that is organized with no confusion around him at all. and unity is what the great crowd are all about.
17th Angel
לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
- Messages
- 9,437
- Reaction score
- 10
- Points
- 0
Mee, what I was attempting to do, was place you in a thread with no pressure or stress, that is what I was hoping for, I was placing a topic that you know well about, also because you perhaps get a bit of a negative response from most because half of what you beleive and half because you copy and paste most.. Now I thought If I asked basic questions and most common questions people get mixed up and start rumours about the JW's on we could, clear up your faith, help you to type yourself and also get to know and Love you. I wanted nothing but the best for you, is that, that suprising? *bounces ball back* It's in your court brother.
M
mee
Guest
Mee, what I was attempting to do, was place you in a thread with no pressure or stress, quote]who said that i have any stress , not mee .
i just put over bible truth and i like doing that .
i think you will find that i have never complained about others comments about me , but i think i am correct in saying that many become stressed out when i put over what the bible teaches. so who are the stressed ones
M
mee
Guest
contending that since the Trinity is such a confusing mystery, it must have come from divine revelation creates another major problem. Why? Because divine revelation itself does not allow for such a view of God: "God is not a God of confusion."—1 Corinthians 14:33, Revised Standard Version (RS).
Namaste mee,i think you will find that i have never complained about others comments about me , but i think i am correct in saying that many become stressed out when i put over what the bible teaches. so who are the stressed ones
I think the difference may be that you continually insist that you follow what the bible teaches. While some of your links are to the bible, they are more often to the watchtower. And when you cut and paste bible quotes you tend to cut and paste watchtower interpretations of those quotes. This makes folks believe that it is not what the bible teaches that you revel in, but what the watchtower says the bible teaches.
Now truth be known I come largely from what Unity teaches the bible teaches and others come from what the Catholic Church or some other church teaches what the bible teaches.
M
mee
Guest
. This makes folks believe that it is not what the bible teaches that you revel in, but what the watchtower says the bible teaches.
quote]and thats the problem that they have ,
i am glad to say that i do not have a problem with
what Jehovahs witnesses print, because it is more inline with what the bible teaches so that is fine by mee
M
mee
Guest
No
the bible does not teach that.
M
mee
Guest
What the Trinity Doctrine Means
Some have concluded that simply ascribing deity or godship to Jesus is all that the Trinity teaching means.
For others, belief in the Trinity simply means belief in Father, Son, and holy spirit.
However, a close examination of Christendom’s creeds exposes how woefully inadequate such ideas are in relation to the formal doctrine.
Official definitions make it clear that the Trinity doctrine is not a simple idea. Instead, it is a complex set of separate ideas that have been brought together over a long period of time and interlocked into one another.
From the picture of the Trinity doctrine that appeared after the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E., from the Tome of Damasus in 382 C.E., from the Athanasian Creed that came some time later, and from other documents, we can clearly determine what Christendom means by the Trinity doctrine. It includes the following definite ideas:
1. There are said to be three divine persons—the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit—in the Godhead.
2. Each of these separate persons is said to be eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.
3. Each is said to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than the other.
4. Each is said to be omniscient, knowing all things.
5. Each is said to be true God.
6. However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God.
Clearly the Trinity doctrine is a complex set of ideas including at least the above vital elements and involving even more, as revealed when the details are examined.
But if we consider only the above basic ideas, it is apparent that if any are removed, what remains is no longer Christendom’s Trinity.
To have the complete picture, all these pieces must be present.
With this better understanding of the term "Trinity," we can now ask: Was it a teaching of Jesus and his disciples? If so, it should have appeared fully formed in the first century of our Common Era.
And since what they taught is found in the Bible, then the Trinity doctrine is either a Bible teaching or it is not. If it is, it should be clearly taught in the Bible.
It is not reasonable to think that Jesus and his disciples would teach people about God and yet not tell them who God is, especially when some believers would be asked to give up even their lives for God.
Hence, Jesus and his disciples should have given the highest priority to teaching others about this vital doctrine.
Some have concluded that simply ascribing deity or godship to Jesus is all that the Trinity teaching means.
For others, belief in the Trinity simply means belief in Father, Son, and holy spirit.
However, a close examination of Christendom’s creeds exposes how woefully inadequate such ideas are in relation to the formal doctrine.
Official definitions make it clear that the Trinity doctrine is not a simple idea. Instead, it is a complex set of separate ideas that have been brought together over a long period of time and interlocked into one another.
From the picture of the Trinity doctrine that appeared after the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E., from the Tome of Damasus in 382 C.E., from the Athanasian Creed that came some time later, and from other documents, we can clearly determine what Christendom means by the Trinity doctrine. It includes the following definite ideas:
1. There are said to be three divine persons—the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit—in the Godhead.
2. Each of these separate persons is said to be eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.
3. Each is said to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than the other.
4. Each is said to be omniscient, knowing all things.
5. Each is said to be true God.
6. However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God.
Clearly the Trinity doctrine is a complex set of ideas including at least the above vital elements and involving even more, as revealed when the details are examined.
But if we consider only the above basic ideas, it is apparent that if any are removed, what remains is no longer Christendom’s Trinity.
To have the complete picture, all these pieces must be present.
With this better understanding of the term "Trinity," we can now ask: Was it a teaching of Jesus and his disciples? If so, it should have appeared fully formed in the first century of our Common Era.
And since what they taught is found in the Bible, then the Trinity doctrine is either a Bible teaching or it is not. If it is, it should be clearly taught in the Bible.
It is not reasonable to think that Jesus and his disciples would teach people about God and yet not tell them who God is, especially when some believers would be asked to give up even their lives for God.
Hence, Jesus and his disciples should have given the highest priority to teaching others about this vital doctrine.
M
mee
Guest
very true , its a broad road indeed .
M
mee
Guest
Examine the Scriptures
At Acts chapter 17, verse 11, people are called "noble-minded" because they were "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so," things taught by the apostle Paul.
They were encouraged to use the Scriptures to confirm the teachings even of an apostle. You should do the same.
Keep in mind that the Scriptures are "inspired of God" and are to be used for "setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)
So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.
I invite you to search the Bible, especially the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, to see for yourself if Jesus and his disciples taught a Trinity. As you search, ask yourself:
1. Can I find any scripture that mentions "Trinity"?
2. Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?
3. Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
Search as you may, you will not find one scripture that uses the word Trinity,
nor will you find any that says that Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom.
Not even a single scripture says that the Son is equal to the Father in those ways—and if there were such a scripture, it would establish not a Trinity but at most a "duality." Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.
At Acts chapter 17, verse 11, people are called "noble-minded" because they were "carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so," things taught by the apostle Paul.
They were encouraged to use the Scriptures to confirm the teachings even of an apostle. You should do the same.
Keep in mind that the Scriptures are "inspired of God" and are to be used for "setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)
So the Bible is complete in doctrinal matters. If the Trinity doctrine is true, it should be there.
I invite you to search the Bible, especially the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, to see for yourself if Jesus and his disciples taught a Trinity. As you search, ask yourself:
1. Can I find any scripture that mentions "Trinity"?
2. Can I find any scripture that says that God is made up of three distinct persons, Father, Son, and holy spirit, but that the three are only one God?
3. Can I find any scripture that says that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom?
Search as you may, you will not find one scripture that uses the word Trinity,
nor will you find any that says that Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom.
Not even a single scripture says that the Son is equal to the Father in those ways—and if there were such a scripture, it would establish not a Trinity but at most a "duality." Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.
17th Angel
לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
- Messages
- 9,437
- Reaction score
- 10
- Points
- 0
Q, could I just say, that I think perhaps even the scholars amongst us, go with opinions quite often... Just a thought, sorry wished to share...
Understood. Show me the errors of my way. If you can't, then I will defend the trinity with a vengence.
I talk and ask questions, and think about the answers. Mee does not.
That is the difference. Please bear that in mind.