Past, Present, Beyond?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Can we take it away from the 10 commandments to perhaps a Hindu yogi working toward a closeness to God. As he/she becomes more enlightened about the nature of God, it becomes impossible to steal, lie, covet, etc?

    So yes the other commandments had to be written down -- for people who could not fully follow the first? Which applies to most societies in the busy everyday movement of living.

    But for someone truly following the first commandment, there is no need for the others to be written down. They are just things it becomes impossible to do and walk away from?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    A lot of mores are tribal, for preservation of the tribe. The rules didnt apply to people from outside the tribe. Then Christ came with the parable of the good Samaritan and the sermon on the mount etc -- and spread 'Christian values' to everyone?

    EDIT
    Would the values still be instinctive (outside the tribe) to a secular humanist society if Christ had never put them out there to begin with? That's the question, I suppose. Are they so instinctive?
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    It ain't like they are carved in stone or anything.
     
  4. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Yes, this is the sentiment I mentioned a few posts back:

    It seems obvious at first that someone who believes in God won't need to be reminded of or spend effor on not being a dick towards fellow human beings, but somehow, that never works out, at least historically, and not only for a majority of nominal believers, but also for highly spiritual, deeply religious people. You mentioned Hindu saints - look at what happened to those Hindu Saints who came to the West... Look at the abuse scandals in Zen Centers and Christian parishes...

    That's what I meant. Spiritual discipline and moral/ethical discipline should by all rights be congruent, but under scrutiny, they are appear to be only coupled by very faint links, and require dedication and effort each in their own right.
     
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  5. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, no.

    A big issue with humans is tribalism, so you have a situation where someone believes in God, and the early Gods were Gods of the tribe, and it was my God v your God.

    The way of exchange between God and me, as it were, is not the same as between me and you, because you ain't God ...

    And so it goes on, and it seems unless explicitly stated, Covenants do not necessarily include others, and actually excludes others if they are not like me, that is, not my tribe.

    Culture, society, call it what you will, grapples with this on increasingly larger scales.

    But we see it here — my comment about self-righteousness in post #60 was addressing just that, how ready we are to claim our enlightenment by point at those who are not my tribe ...
     
  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    Yes, pride. We all need to have pride, but excess is from satan.
    As you say, people are fond of claiming
    "my creed is the only one acceptable by G-d .. or my prophet is the only one .. or is G-d etc." o_O

    G-d knows why we say what we say. One thing is for sure,
    YOU AND I ARE NOT G-D .. I don't think that G-d is tribal, but that is just my opinion.

    No .. it's not about what religion we claim to be, or where we were born .. it's about
    our intentions and actions. THAT is the origin of our relationship with G-d.
     
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  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    I guess. No-one is perfect.

    God is not tribal. Humans are.

    Yes

    edited ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  8. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    "NJ, party of one... your table's ready!" Dined at that café a number of times myself, mate. -:D
     
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  9. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about tribes —

    We all have our stories, but Aussie's thoughts (if I may) on his upbringing, his family and First Australians (forgive me, I'm too old and too slow to keep up with what's PC these days) underline the fact that people are basically good ...

    There's that sociological experiment:
    One person collapses in the street and we're the only one there, we rush in and see what we can do to help.
    One person collapses in the street and there's ten people there, we stand around in a group waiting for someone to do something ...
     
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  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    When you are the only one, you are the MOST qualified to handle the situation.

    When you aren't, you hesitate to find out who is.

    When I lived rural, we waved to folks we didn't know, I pulled over to help EVERYBODY that was broken down, I picked up every hitchhiker. When I moved to DC area,.driving around the beltway 20 miles it would average 2 cars broke down on the way to work in the morning. For a month I'd leave an hour early..before I gave up my rural habits...not just because of time...but half the folks were wary of intent to help, others indignant...

    The nature of numbers...
     
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  11. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Times were different, innocence lost.
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Nothing to do with time.,..simply population density...go anyplace rural today, they still wave, still help each other.

    If I can get my heart in order, I'm gonna hitch across country again...
     
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  13. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I think the science is more complicated than that: The bystander effect.
     
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  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Lol,.yes 30 paragraphs are always more complicated than two.

    And all studies done by PhD social psychologists trying to get published in journals are more complicated than my oversimplified ramblings of my observations.

    I am used to that. And then there is the case of witnesses, lawsuits and the variety of conditions enumerated in the wiki article.

    Me? The crux of the bisquit is the apostrophe!
     
  15. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Why can't the bisquit crust be an explanation point or maybe semi-colon, ever thought of that? Naw me neither, rambling stone? rambling man by the Stoned Rollers???> Rolling Udders
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Dats udder nonsense;
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Well the simplify it, we hesitate because of an instinctive fear of avoiding censure.

    Yeah, I think the pressures are different among rural communities.

    It's like when I lived in a poor part of London, everyone knew their neighbour, we used to go on holiday as a group of families, one man under the bonnet and half the streets out to lend a hand/advice ...

    ... then we moved into an 'affluent' communal housing programme, we had unheard of things: central heating, double glazing, waste disposal ... and we stopped talking to our neighbours. I used to work as a cashier in a gas station. Guy comes to the front of the queue. We look at each other. "You live next door!" There was a lot of doorstep chats after that.

    When I was a kid (12) on a visit to rural Ireland, everyone roundabout used to cram into one house's front room on a Friday evening to watch The Virginian on TV! I was walking home in twilight along a country lane when I made out two people coming towards me, two women, I could tell by their voices. They separated and I walked between them, then they burst out laughing. "What?" I asked, "Pass between two women and it means you'll marry one of them." I had no idea who they were, but they knew I was the lad home from England. Another day, walking along, heard someone clipping a hedge. "Morning to you," ... so we had a conversation, again, never saw who it was or what he looked like...

    The downside is, those same down-home country folks are sometimes members of the KKK, or fundamental Christians, or both! The treatment of strangers can often be one of two extremes ... and the crimes against spouses, kids, family members, etc., go unreported because for people in that situation, there is no escape.
     
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  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Same page on all that.
     
  19. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    People, you just don't know who or what resides in that box of chocolates
     
  20. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    If I were inclined to change the world, how might I implement mass change?
     

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