What is a Meek?

[wil]

... Both times I was completely sober in every respect. ... what happened to me was what people call a religious experience. ... I just tuned into the whole. The whole is not a God though. It is not divine. ... But it is beautiful. A

di·vineMiddle English divin, from Anglo-French, from Latin divinus, from divus god — more at deityDate:14th century 1 a: of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love> b: being a deity <the divine Savior> c: directed to a deity <divine worship>
2 a: supremely good : superb <the pie was divine> b: heavenly, godlike
— di·vine·ly adverb

So everything just was? Not supremely good, like the blueberry pie?

I think we are talking of the same thing, contemplating similar circumstances. So let us say this was 2,000 or 10,000 years ago. When you had an encounter with the eachness of the allness realizing oneness. And then you go to describe it to a group of folks who dance at the sunrise and bemoan as the nights get longer, and worry that the sun may not come back tomorrow. Maybe they have gods for everything, or mythologies on infinitum, how pray tell do you explain your story to someone else. First you want them to experience, first you have to get them to listen, and the only folks that get them to listen currently have some pretty big stories and some pretty powerful G!ds, but the end justifies the means, you know they need this revelation. So you build a G1d in your image, to suit your tune, so they will listen and maybe have the same experience as you.

There was no G!d there, it was not divine. Well either you and I aren't describing the same thing, or we have different definitions of G!d and divine. Tis obvious we have different definitions of G!d, I gave up the big guy controlling things and keeping naughty and nice lists years ago. Quit carrying Him around and head back into the void. If you are the creator of your world and your experience....who is G!d. If there is a power within each of us more powerful than anything that exists outside of us, where is G!d? If entire universes that you cannot see and do not know exists between and betwixt the things you can see what are you sitting on, and what is it sitting on?

Is everything lost sooner or later, go back into the void and see if we aren't just changing channels.

It does not watch and judge us with hypocritical human value systems. Simply it is not what religions describe in any way.

Me thinks that is how many of us acquire access, we stumble, we trip, we fall into it. Quit using horsepower and use the way of the horse. Not G!d in our image, ask what is G!d, go into the ether and find the answer, why would G!d use our value systems, and we've already discussed the shortfalls and pitfalls of putting this experience into words. So spend time in the void and out here when reading Lao Tzu, Confucious, the Dharma, the Bible, the Tanakh, the Quran, OR Dr. Seuss or Aesops fables or Charles Dickens or Churchill, look not for the human explanations of the unexplainable but the stories beneath, the essence that pervades all...and enjoy the heck out of it!

 

[pattimax]

Because I have looked at the evidence. Or rather the lack of it.

I cannot convince you to believe in something if you adamantly refuse to consider the evidence. You can say what you will about geologic processes, but the evidence is all around us. What you term “lack of evidence” is actually a refusal on your part to see evidence.

Religion on the other hand panders to and perverts our own innate self-importance to its own ends. It hijacks common sense for what is really nothing more than foolish superstition. And it uses every psychological device in the book to these ends. Religion can bring comfort but that comfort is still built upon a lie.

God says something similar to this in the book of Isaiah (in between chapters 40 and 50) when referring to idol worship. Got my attention when I was checking out Christianity.

As for your ‘innate sense of self-importance’, I am trying to be as kind as I can and believe me I do want to be nice, but this thought is not yours, IT'S A LIE STRAIGHT FROM THE PIT OF HELL!!

Karen

 

[Tao_Equus]

Thanks for your passionate post

.......... look not for the human explanations of the unexplainable but the stories beneath, the essence that pervades all...and enjoy the heck out of it!

I think I do enjoy the heck out of it. I came from a terrible place where at least 20 of my contemporaries died of Aids from needles shared for heroin. At least another 12 committed suicide. Unemployment reached 60%. My only achievement in school was the school record for truancy. I hardly went to a class, never sat any exam but here I am able to discuss often complex and obscure issues with you all. The only reason I am here and able to do so is because I love Life, The Universe and Everything I just do not have to invoke a God Spirit for which I find no evidence to explain it all. There are rational arguments for every aspect of nature some of which I grant are as yet unproven but still outperform any religion in the credibility stakes. I actually think I can appreciate the whole of what I see to a greater degree than if I was encumbered by the theological puzzle box that would leave me trying to fit square pegs into round holes. I count myself blessed that I am uninfluenced by religion

Tao

 

[Tao_Equus]

Hi Karen,

I cannot convince you to believe in something if you adamantly refuse to consider the evidence.

You seem to have not read what I wrote or chose not to see it? I stated "I have looked at the evidence". I do not adamantly refuse to consider it, I have, and I find it hopelessly polluted by superstition and power politics. It is purely a product of man and evolved along with man to great complexity and refinement. It relies on indoctrination, social pressure and exploiting psychological weaknesses. But it, (and here I use 'it' as a blanket term for all the major religions and their spin offs), has no basis in fact when you examine what it says. Each and every one is about social cohesion and control, which is of course not bad of itself, but it has so often been abused.
I think it is you that has refused to examine what I say and not the other way round. Many Europeans feel that the US is currently infected by a disease. Religion. Almost every political soundbite we see here on the TV from an American politician he/she praises the lord or references God in some way. Every interviewed member of the public does the same. It is totally alien to us. And its a bit scary too, like a Hitchcock movie. The social pressure to believe over there is enormous. If you are not you are labelled satanic as you humorously demonstrated.
What right have you to say that I have not considered the facts simply because you cannot accept I reach a different conclusion to you? Every time you pick up a bible and believe what is written before you read it you have suspended the rational and embraced blind faith. You do not examine it. You use it to confirm what you believe already. I could do that with a 2000AD comic. That is so easy. But it does not mean it is real or true or whatever.
So... I will not be going to hell any more than you will go to paradise. Neither exist. We are our biology which at death will putrefy or burn and we will be nothing but the immediately diluted heritage of our passed down DNA and some fading photograph brought out of some dusty attic. But thats not bad. At least we lived and looked and wondered for a while. Better than to never be at all. So do not waste it on reading the 1 book endlessly please... life is for living.

Tao

 

[pattimax]

Hi Karen,

You seem to have not read what I wrote or chose not to see it? I stated "I have looked at the evidence". I do not adamantly refuse to consider it, I have, and I find it hopelessly polluted by superstition and power politics. [/font]

I did not ignore what you wrote. You adamantly refuse to consider Scripture. I think it is you that have not read what I wrote. There is no blind faith; my eyes are wide open. You are so quick to dismiss the bible that you don’t even realize a lot of what you are complaining about is addressed in there. Those are some of the reasons Jesus Christ came to earth. God takes your position and it is a good one.

I think it is you that has refused to examine what I say and not the other way round.

How do you figure? Is it because I don’t take the same dim view.

Many Europeans feel that the US is currently infected by a disease. Religion. Almost every political soundbite we see here on the TV from an American politician he/she praises the lord or references God in some way. Every interviewed member of the public does the same. It is totally alien to us. And its a bit scary too, like a Hitchcock movie. The social pressure to believe over there is enormous.

I thought you guys were tougher than that. Besides, it really isn’t social pressure. You see someone with an inner tranquility and a beautiful sense of calm and you want whatever they have. No pressure. He is free, perfect, beautiful, and constant.

Neither exist.

Wanna bet?

What right have you to say that I have not considered the facts simply because you cannot accept I reach a different conclusion to you?

The bible has not been considered.

 

[bob x]

He HAS SO considered the Bible, and finds it "hopelessly polluted with superstition and power politics"; you may find it difficult to believe that people examine it, and find it so, but I also have examined it and find the same, although as Tao can tell you, the two of us don't agree on very much and can hardly be accused of coming from the same biases.
When we look at Bible-believer Christians of the American type, we do not see "tranquillity" and "calm" that we want to share; we see a frightening primitivity that we wish we could avoid having anything to do with.

 

[pattimax]

When we look at Bible-believer Christians of the American type, we do not see "tranquillity" and "calm" that we want to share; we see a frightening primitivity that we wish we could avoid having anything to do with.

Well, we've gone through this before (you and I), you see things that aren't there.

As for "superstition and power politics", to me that is preposterous. The bible is so rich in wisdom. It even talks about this as appearing as foolishness to you, so I am really not surpised. I cannot argue you into accepting eternal life. I will lose the argument and you'll just lose.

Live it up, while you can.

 

[Tao_Equus]

I did not ignore what you wrote. You adamantly refuse to consider Scripture.

lol... I try a third time, but this is the last. I did consider it and I chose to dismiss it.

You are so quick to dismiss the bible that you don’t even realize a lot of what you are complaining about is addressed in there.

Exactly what am I complaining about?
Both the Bible and Q'uran share the ability to throw up an interpretation for anything, any argument, any propaganda you wish to disseminate. This does not point to evidence of divinity but does very much remind you of a politician.
Christ never wrote a Gospel. He never compiled those that were written or omitted. He never wrote a forward giving his sanction to the contents. But if he was half the man I think he was he would have been the first to dismiss it. You see I believe someone called Jesus did exist. He was a man, and only a man, sickened by what religion had become. So often when I hear American Christians referring to "scripture" it is nauseating and biased pedantry to there own interpretation of something and Jesus is reduced to a convenient symbolic word to hinge it all upon. I think I understand the principle of the Christ message and it needs no scripture, no preachers, no big wealthy organisations to know it. For as far as I am aware there is only one single quote of Jesus in the entire new testament and a child of 3 can learn it in minutes. So why do we need a bible? Why do we need preachers? Why do we need the ritual, the indoctrination, the judgement and the transparent hypocrisy of mean arrogance over the possession of truth? Because it is a political affiliation not a spiritual one. And if you cannot see that then I suggest it is because you are thoroughly indoctrinated and not because I adamantly refuse to see anything.

How do you figure? Is it because I don’t take the same dim view.

No. It is because I am now on my third attempt to refute your assertion. And my view is not dim, it is honest, unbiased and beautiful. I love the universe, not some old book.

I thought you guys were tougher than that. Besides, it really isn’t social pressure. You see someone with an inner tranquility and a beautiful sense of calm and you want whatever they have. No pressure. He is free, perfect, beautiful, and constant.

You mean like this guy? YouTube - Crazy Preacher Ridicules Breast Exams
This is typical American Christianity. Hey you got a lump on your breast!! Its the doctors fault for telling you so stop paying the doctor and Order this DVD now instead!!
Maybe the reason us Europeans are rejecting religion is because we have America thrown at us on the TV so much. We watch and we can see how crazy it all is. Over there I get the feeling many of you cannot see the wood for the trees.

The bible has not been considered.

It has. I prefer the freedom of my own thoughts based on a much broader seat of learning.

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.''

Benjamin Franklin.


Tao

 

[Tao_Equus]

May I humbly submit that in actual fact there is one great Reverend from the U.S of A that I deeply admire and respect. His sermons inspire me, his scripture is literally music to my ears and his insight is profound!! I present :
YouTube - reverend horton heat - baddest of the bad

Tao enjoy!!

 

[Saltmeister]

He HAS SO considered the Bible, and finds it "hopelessly polluted with superstition and power politics"; you may find it difficult to believe that people examine it, and find it so, but I also have examined it and find the same

Its content is definitely political. It was written by politicians and statesmen, and is best understood either by those who are politicians, those who have knowledge of political and military history, political science, statecraft, how political systems work and all the power struggles that have taken place in human history.

"Hopelessly polluted" is one of many views or assessments you may have of the Bible. But the Bible being a piece (more importantly, a collection) of literature, is open to interpretation. "Hopelessly polluted" is a something that would belong more to a particular (possibly critical) reader than the Bible itself (not to get personal here, Tao; just my humble opinion; I would say the same for Pattimax as well, or anyone). To get a good idea of what the literature entails, we must all read the Bible with the eyes, ears and minds of politicians. Even then, we won't agree on everything, because having done so with the minds of politicians, and the Bible itself being political, we will all see it as serving a different purpose. It's all about perception. What you believe about the Bible is what you perceive. You can't know the truth. You have to think and form an educated guess.

When we look at Bible-believer Christians of the American type, we do not see "tranquillity" and "calm" that we want to share; we see a frightening primitivity that we wish we could avoid having anything to do with.

Yeah. Americans. heh

There is definitely something about Americans. I used to think they were a largely secular bunch, as the American movies I get here rarely mention religious concepts. So I thought Americans weren't very religious. Then about a year ago, I found that a large proportion of Americans are Christians. There must be a lot of peer pressure to be sure about what you believe. As for American movies not touching on religious concepts -- good marketing. We wouldn't watch movies that exhibit fundamentalist sentiment.

They tend to like to "play God." The "playing God" mentality is definitely out there if what Tao says is true. It could be true then, that a lot of Americans think of themselves as the Nation of God and mistake the U.S. for Israel. That would certainly offend a lot of Jews. They're the most powerful country in the whole world, so they must think God is on their side. Trouble is, I doubt whether many of them have really read the Bible (America is not Israel). As Quahom would say, "last time I checked, you ain't God."

But anyway . . . I was just being sarcastic . . .

 

[cyberpi]

Nothing is forever. No matter how you paint it, everything is lost sooner or later.

Tao, I'm so impressed... nothing here is infinite, including time. Everything is lost, and yet nothing is lost. What is lost is the control or power within this existance, but all information of what existed and transpired has been kept. History as people know it is a mere copy, a memory, photograph, map, or a tool to remember and control by. The real history is not lost and it is incorruptible by man. That can be said from science. All history could be resurrected, and I believe it will. This entire universe might be a book on everyone's shelf someday... so to speak. Start to end. Like you said, nothing is forever. This book will have an end.

Every time you pick up a bible and believe what is written before you read it you have suspended the rational and embraced blind faith.

If I wanted to practice blind faith then I'd blind fold myself and play frogger on the freeway... or I'd find a casino and waste my earnings with gambling... or find another stock to 'invest' into. There is another kind... that faith you have in someone that they are telling you the truth, that they have your best interest in mind, and that they will also place faith in you per your will. Jesus never referenced blind faith... did he?

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.''

Those who gain freedom or security by taking the freedom or security from others will not have, nor do they deserve, either one. The government that defends itself with mere words rather than nuclear weapons is the government who has Faith in God.

A tribal African proverb made famous in the USA by Roosevelt, "Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far". To that I respond: Speak honestly and sharply, and carry NO stick, and you will go a whole lot farther. That is Faith in God... and it is in the gospels.

 

[17th Angel]

God Bless America!

Oh indeed, please great being, bless the nation of war mongers/one of the highest obesity rates/Worlds top supplier of arms to devloping nations/Most funds spent on weapons and armies/That enslaved an entire race/and so on.... lol you can see where this is going... So yeah god if you are of justice and mercy... Forget the poor countries and starving countries and those countries ripped apart by war... Which get their weapons and reasons... From, you know who... Forget them, bless this amazing country! Oh you are a just god

--edit--
lol... Sorry just all the "hail to the chief" and god bless america tends to make me click at things... I don't see why a great being would wish to bless your country, they certainly do not deserve it... If anything god bless Africa, may their wars be ended, may the rains fall heavy, may their fields produce food and grazing..... And all countriess in dire need.... May they be blessed.... I am sure god wouldn't be biased and give a rats ass about the united states... Like that maybe some people but not the nation as a body.... Unity....

 

[Saltmeister]

--edit--
lol... Sorry just all the "hail to the chief" and god bless america tends to make me click at things... I don't see why a great being would wish to bless your country, they certainly do not deserve it... If anything god bless Africa, may their wars be ended, may the rains fall heavy, may their fields produce food and grazing..... And all countriess in dire need.... May they be blessed.... I am sure god wouldn't be biased and give a rats ass about the united states... Like that maybe some people but not the nation as a body.... Unity....

Blessed are the meek . . .

 

[Tao_Equus]

Blessed are the meek . . .

rflmfao

 

[cyberpi]

How would you contrast the meek with the poor in spirit?

Chris

As I read the translated word 'poor', I am reading the word as begging, beggar, thirsty, hungry, seeking, praying, or asking. God is a spirit... was Jesus poor in spirit? Yet Jesus did pray to God, prostrating. I see it as:

Matthew 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Not to say that heaven and earth are even remotely the same, but if 'meek' were meant as 'passive' then the two would be opposed. I'm saying that a beggar is not passive.

 

[Tao_Equus]

As I read the translated word 'poor', I am reading the word as begging, beggar, thirsty, hungry, seeking, praying, or asking. God is a spirit... was Jesus poor in spirit? Yet Jesus did pray to God, prostrating. I see it as:

yet the phrasing clearly implies, without, devoid, lacking, weak.

Not to say that heaven and earth are even remotely the same, but if 'meek' were meant as 'passive' then the two would be opposed. I'm saying that a beggar is not passive.

A beggar can be passive or aggressive. The act of begging maybe offends you in all its forms? A man, woman or child sat still behind their begging receptacle, eyes to floor, in humility that their position has reached such dire straits is meek in every sense. They are at the mercy of all that pass whether for charity or abuse. So simply I cannot begin to see what you are trying to say.

Tao

 

[cyberpi]

yet the phrasing clearly implies, without, devoid, lacking, weak.

What did the word imply in Luke 16:20 and Luke 16:22 ?

A beggar can be passive or aggressive. The act of begging maybe offends you in all its forms?

No, having faith does not offend me. Everyone I know has begged. Did you never ask your parents for something, believing they care for you, yet knowing that you would not be able to repay them?

A man, woman or child sat still behind their begging receptacle, eyes to floor, in humility that their position has reached such dire straits is meek in every sense. They are at the mercy of all that pass whether for charity or abuse. So simply I cannot begin to see what you are trying to say.

Yet they are far more humble and with faith in neighbor if they cry out for mercy. A person with pride is unable to beg. If I ask you for something, have I begged from you? If I ask you again and again and again, crying out and pleading from you... have I begged?

In the gospels, Jesus was a selective servant. Are you perhaps offended by that Tao? I've heard it said that the squeeky wheel gets the greese.

 

[Tao_Equus]

What did the word imply in Luke 16:20 and Luke 16:22 ? p

Luke but dont listen? Maybe not but i responded to what you said....you do not respond to what i said.

In the gospels, Jesus was a selective servant. Are you perhaps offended by that Tao? I've heard it said that the squeeky wheel gets the greese.

Selective servant??? Well i am glad i am not American, dont need that kind of social strata metaphor to understand good and bad. Christ preached one message, no servants...what was it? Can you see it hidden amongst the dogma?

Tao

 

[mee]

Christ preached one message, no servants...what was it? Can you see it hidden amongst the dogma?

Tao

MATTHEW 24;45-47
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.
Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

Its good to know that Jesus has a slave class that is serving him well. and they are partaking of all the good spiritual food that Jesus is dishing out to them at just the right time .


Jesus is Jehovahs servant, and Jesus inturn is feeding a faithful class of servants , right now on the earth . its all happening in this the last days



for me i have found the faithful servants and they are preaching just the message that Jesus wants them too.

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14 .................... the goodnews that Gods heavenly kingdom goverment is now well established and has been since 1914 inline with bible prophecy and chronology , is what it is all about. Daniel 2;44 And the goodnews that Jesus is a reigning king is great news too. Daniel 7;13-14 and yes it is being made known on a GLOBAL scale . on with the work that the faithful ones are feeding me.

(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first.

 

[pattimax]

Maybe the reason us Europeans are rejecting religion is because we have America thrown at us on the TV so much. We watch and we can see how crazy it all is. Over there I get the feeling many of you cannot see the wood for the trees.

A personal observation, you watch way too much t.v.

It has. I prefer the freedom of my own thoughts based on a much broader seat of learning.

“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.''

Benjamin Franklin.

Good quote. It has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about, though. Nobody wants to take away your freedom. I think you seriously want to think about limiting the amount of television you watch... only a suggestion.