JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Tao_Equus, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    ;) Just a joke sunshine!!! Bless... But anyway in reference to your last post.... Accuracy is key with JW's? What's gods name again..... ?
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I am.
     
  3. Bandit

    Bandit Well-Known Member

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    When you get sucked into and join it.
     
  4. Bandit

    Bandit Well-Known Member

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    17th Angel is my God:D
     
  5. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    :)

    That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,​
    You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18


    but then you knew i would come up with that verse;)
     
  6. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    or even ,......... I will prove to be what i will prove to be


    He said to Moses: "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be." (Exodus 3:14)
    Jehovah chose his own name, one rich in meaning. "Jehovah" literally means "He Causes to Become."


    J. B. Rotherham’s translation pointedly renders this verse: "I Will Become whatsoever I please." One authority on Biblical Hebrew explains the phrase this way: "Whatever the situation or need . . . , God will ‘become’ the solution to that need."


    Many Bible translations here read: "I am that I am. but carful rendering is needed
     
  7. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    It's only my very good chum Bandit!! Blessings upon you brother!! I'm your god? lol... *saves that post* Thanks... Hope I don't let you down.

    I had a -feeling- you would use that post but, Jehovah isn't gods name is it? Accuracy is key though to JW's? so his name is?
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    [SIZE=-1]Psalm 46:10 [/SIZE] Be still, and know that I am God
     
  9. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    We have these replies.... I am, 17th Angel(lol), YHWH, yahweh, YHVH, Yeshua, Yahushua, Yahshua, Jehovah, God, Jesus, LORD, Elohim, Elohay, so on and so forth, They all deviate from the oringinal texts... :\ So.... What's gods name?
     
  10. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Give in, YOU people, and know that I am God.
    I will be exalted among the nations,
    I will be exalted in the earth.” psalm 46;10


    (Isaiah 42:8) “I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.

    (Isaiah 12:4) And in that day YOU will certainly say: “Give thanks to Jehovah, YOU people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high.

    (1 Chronicles 16:8) “Give thanks to Jehovah, YOU people; call upon his name, Make his deeds known among the peoples!



    (Psalm 105:1) GIVE thanks to Jehovah, call upon his name, Make known among the peoples his dealings.


    so what name would that be ?

    this one

    That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
    You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18

    And as Jesus said to his father Jehovah



    (John 12:28) Father, glorify your name.” Therefore a voice came out of heaven: “I both glorified [it] and will glorify [it] again.”
     
  11. bob x

    bob x Well-Known Member

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    But "Jehovah" ISN'T the name!
     
  12. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    It also depends what you're being sucked into . . .

    ie. a vacuum cleaner . . . something you use for cleansing the world of dirt and scum.:D

    You . . . literally . . . get trashed!!!
     
  13. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    JEHOVAH

    (Je·ho′vah) [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah′ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”].

    The personal name of God. (Isa 42:8; 54:5) Though Scripturally designated by such descriptive titles as “God,” “Sovereign Lord,” “Creator,” “Father,” “the Almighty,” and “the Most High,” his personality and attributes—who and what he is—are fully summed up and expressed only in this personal name.—Ps 83:18.
     
  14. bob x

    bob x Well-Known Member

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    "Jehovah" is not a Hebrew word.
     
  15. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Finally.... *takes big breath* Exhausting this lol.... They say they aim for accuracy yet their name itself is incorrect....

    The very first letter stumps that idea.... lol the letter J in hebrew? Don't think so... ;)

    Also.... [the causative form, the imperfect state, of the Heb. verb ha·wah′ (become); meaning “He Causes to Become”].

    That isn't right though is it?
     
  16. bob x

    bob x Well-Known Member

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    The "causative" form is the hip'il (from the root P-'-L "to do", hip'il is "he made [someone else] do [something]"), which from H-W-H would give yihwih or maybe yehiwih in the imperfect (with y- prefix) for "he is causing [something] to be". They must have it confused with the "causative-passive" hop'al "he was made to do [something, by somebody else]", which from H-W-H could give yohwah or maybe yehowah "he is being made to exist [by somebody else]", the opposite of what they want.
    Actually, of course, the vowels in Yahowah (the change of the first vowel from a to e is actually more serious error than representing y by J, since that is the sound the letter J used to stand for, or w by v, since the Hebrew consonant is not quite like either) are an arbitrary insertion, reminding the reader that he is not supposed to try to pronounce YHWH but should say Adonay instead.
     
  17. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    In the Hebrew language it is written הוהי. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God’s name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost 7,000 times in the original “Old Testament,” or Hebrew Scriptures.


    The name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah′ (הוה), meaning “to become,” and actually signifies “He Causes to Become.” Thus, God’s name identifies him as the One who progressively fulfills his promises and unfailingly realizes his purposes. Only the true God could bear such a meaningful name.
     
  18. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    To take the most prominent example, consider the name of Jesus. Do you know how Jesus’ family and friends addressed him in day-to-day conversation while he was growing up in Nazareth? The truth is, no human knows for certain, although it may have been something like Yeshua (or perhaps Yehoshua). It certainly was not Jesus.

    However, when the accounts of his life were written in the Greek language, the inspired writers did not try to preserve that original Hebrew pronunciation. Rather, they rendered the name in Greek, I·e·sous′. Today, it is rendered differently according to the language of the reader of the Bible. Spanish Bible readers encounter Jesús (pronounced Hes·soos′). Italians spell it Gesù (pronounced Djay·zoo′). And Germans spell it Jesus (pronounced Yay′soos).

    Must we stop using the name of Jesus because most of us, or even all of us, do not really know its original pronunciation? So far, no translator has suggested this. We like to use the name, for it identifies the beloved Son of God, Jesus Christ, who gave his lifeblood for us. Would it be showing honor to Jesus to remove all mention of his name in the Bible and replace it with a mere title like “Teacher,” or “Mediator”? Of course not! We can relate to Jesus when we use his name the way it is commonly pronounced in our language.

    Similar comments could be made regarding all the names we read in the Bible. We pronounce them in our own language and do not try to imitate the original pronunciation. Thus we say “Jeremiah,” not Yir·meya′hu. Similarly we say Isaiah, although in his own day this prophet likely was known as Yesha‛·ya′hu. Even scholars who are aware of the original pronunciation of these names use the modern pronunciation, not the ancient, when speaking about them.

    And the same is true with the name Jehovah. Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. It identifies the Creator, the living God, the Most High to whom Jesus said: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.”—Matthew 6:9.

    In the Hebrew language it is written הוהי. These four letters, called the Tetragrammaton, are read from right to left in Hebrew and can be represented in many modern languages as YHWH or JHVH. God’s name, represented by these four consonants, appears almost 7,000 times in the original “old Testament,” or Hebrew Scriptures.


    retaining these is the thing to do , not change it into some thing else .
     
  19. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Namaste mee,

    When I read your argument to me it states that in regards to the name Jesus or G!d it is appropriate to use the modern acceptable translation based on your language and locale. Not only that, but in the future it will also be acceptable to change again.

    So now I tend to agree. For Jehovah Witnesses it is appropriate for them to use the name Jehovah. But if our convention is to use G!d or Yahweh, or Universal Spirit, or .... that is appropriate for us.


    You still haven't explained my confusion on the thousand gross going to sit at the feet. Is it possible for any of those that lived prior to Jesus or never heard of Jesus to be brought back up to the new earth?

    Are the 144,000 already determined or are there any openings, or do folks get kicked out based on some newbies who have raised the bar?
     
  20. bob x

    bob x Well-Known Member

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    The JW's filled up their roster of 144,000 back in the twenties. They're almost all dead now.
     

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