JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Tao_Equus, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    So none of the disciples, none of Jesus' chosen made the grade? Not mom, not his kin, not Paul? Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, and Mary M. all out? Chose to raise Lazurus once but not worth it the second time?
     
  2. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    yes there are many who died before Jesus , who are in sheol (mankinds common grave)and they have the hope of being resurrected to a paradise earth. and that would include righteous ones who are faithful to God and those who die unrighteous John 5;28-29 but regarding those who will be going to heaven to rule with Jesus in the kingdom, the NUMBER is predetermined by God , but the individuals making up that number are not, they may be chosen by God but they may fall away and become unfaithful, so God would then chose someone else. but the NUMBER is the number that God has decided he wants. yes many ones are to be resurreced into a paradise earth and included among them will be Noah,Abraham, and many others, and those who are ignorant of God .
     
  3. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    those disciples of Jesus were all part of the 144,000, and the gathering went on over many years after Jesus died, but those ones such as Moses, before Jesus will have the ressurrection into the earth.
     
  4. Francis king

    Francis king New Member

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    nice big party in hell though... woo!
     
  5. Francis king

    Francis king New Member

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    and we won't get witnesses knocking on our doors either!

    they'll all be on the other side!

    lol
     
  6. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    The gathering of the 144,000 started back in the days of
    Pentecost of the year 33 C.E. and the gathering has been going on since then , but soon after 1914 when Jesus took up his kingship, he would have started to resurrect those sleeping in death to be with him in the kingdom. now in this time that we live in now ,there is only a remnant left on the earth of the little flock of 144,000, so as you said most are now dead and they are now in heaven with Jesus in the kingdom ,because Jesus started to resurrect them soon after he became king of the kingdom.(in 1914) but those who die now will not have to wait in death because Jesus will resurrect them in the twinkling of an eye, in other words as soon as they die. those who died after 1914 will not have to wait in death it will happen straight away after their death. but they have to die first.
     
  7. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment).

    I am glad to say that the bible does not teach this false teaching , but many have been misled by it , even those calling themselves christians . i am glad to say that the God of the bible does not torment anyone at all in a hellfire , yes many have been misled by false religious teachings,
     
  8. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    but for now , its on with the Lords work.

    And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14

    Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." matthew 28;19-20

    while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house. ACTS 20;20


    And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.ACTS 5;42

    (Romans 10:18) Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, "into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances."


    and not forgetting the angels who are working along with us

    (Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people,


    yes NOW its all happening as everyone is aware .
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    So their are guys in the box seats and then those that get general admission. Moses, the fellow G!D sat down with to write the first 5 books, the guy that led his people outta Egypt...no box seat...nor that guy he renamed Israel, nor Abraham...
    When would they fall away? In Sheol? In Heaven? So after the second coming, Paul did good on earth, wrote all those nice letters, but makes some mistake and suddenly he's tossed back into the cheap seats on earth and someone gets promoted?

    Sounds like the price is right. Paul, you're outta here...mee come on UP!
     
  10. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Notice Mee that you have taken to putting your own words in normal size script and your bible quotes in a much larger one. I wish to thank you for it. It allows me to clearly see that which I can safely ignore.

    Tao
     
  11. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

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    And the paradox is, Mee, that once we acknowledge our separateness through sin, we are reconciled.

    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
    [/FONT][FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] 1 John 1:10[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

    Better to confess to an emptiness and call upon Him to provide, than profess a spiritual abundance offering no vein for the inspirative force to pour in.

    God Bless,

    Br.Bruce

    [/FONT]
     
  12. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    you mention box seats ,but for me i think that living on a paradise earth is the place to be , man was made for the earth and living on the earth was Gods original purpose and it will be a great priviledge to be part of it , and those who are going to heaven have given up that place because they will be ruling as kings and priests in heaven for 1000 years, so for me , rather than looking at living in a paradise earth as a second class seat. i look on it as a wonderful hope for the future , and it will be for ever , and it will be PEACEFUL, NICEEEEEEEE:) And it will be great to meet Moses , Abraham, and many others. Talking about people falling away from the faith ,you mentioned people falling away in sheol, that would be impossible because sheol is mankinds common grave ,and those who are dead are not aware of anything they are dead with no thoughts at all .As for me my hope is to inherit the earth and what a wonderful hope that is matthew 5;5. I do not look upon that as a second class place i look upon that as a wonderful hope for the future . along with a GREAT CROWD of others from all nations and tribes .revelation 7;9-10 Psalm 37;29

    The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will reside forever upon it.psalm 37;29


    (Psalm 37:9) For evildoers themselves will be cut off, But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.

    (Proverbs 2:21) For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it.

    (Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.



    I am doing my best to be a work in progress because being a part of the paradise earth seems like a great place to mee:) and the good thing about it is that the evildoers will be cut-off from all of the blessings . and righteousness will abound. YES, the bible holds out a wonderful hope for the earth and the earthly society of people who inherit it . would you not agree that the earth is a great place to be especially when no one in opposition to Gods purpose is around? the earth even now is good even though many things are not inline with God , war, death, crime, sickness , ect, ect, all of those things are out of line with Gods original purpose for the earth ,so when the earth is filled with the knowledge of Jehovah it will be the best ever. bring it on :)

    (Isaiah 60:18) “No more will violence be heard in your land, despoiling or breakdown within your boundaries. And you will certainly call your own walls Salvation and your gates Praise.



    (Micah 4:4) And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it].


    so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.ISAIAH 55;11

    WHAT A GREAT HOPE .:)
     
  13. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    things are no always as they seem :)
     
  14. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    it will be great to meet these faithful ones in the paradise earth , and they will be able to see just how Gods purpose all worked out over the years . and i am sure that the Almighty will use them yet again in the paradise earth .
    Moses’ personality was equally outstanding, for “the man Moses was by far the meekest Or, “the most mild-tempered.” of all the men who were upon the surface of the ground.” (Num. 12:3)
     
  15. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    All kidding aside about the Scientology church near me having a "now hiring" sign in their window, I find this article disturbing in a supposedly democratic global environment. Is this a case of Orwellian definitions of one entity being "more equal" than another ?

    Either a nation advocates tolerance through and through, or it doesn't. Of course Germany has especially had a burr up its backside for some years now when it comes to Scientology. But I bet they'd still allow "TOMKAT" and John Travolta to come and visit their luxury resorts whenever. How does one define "hypocracy" let alone "democracy" ?

    If it's good enough for Los Angeles, why isn't it for Berlin?

    flow....:rolleyes:

    http://my.earthlink.net/article/int?guid=20071207/4758d350_3ca6_15526200712071623050887
     
  16. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    IOW...open the door, and let Him in, before He stops knocking and moves on...
     
  17. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

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    Hi Flow,
    What if they voted Scientology out? That's democracy.

    I think it would be better if all religions were banned from running money making businesses. If they run a business then register as a business. It would certainly sort the wheat out from the chaff.

    Scientology has a history
    Scientology's Secret Service: 2. The Guardian Office

    Scientology's Secret Service
    The Guardian Office (1966-83)
    20 Apr 73 - SNOW WHITE PROGRAM

    I am a huge supporter of religious freedom.
    I am a huge supporter of the freedom of the individual to be free from control by religious organisations.
    It becomes difficult when money is involved. It becomes difficult when religions seek to control the State, and get involved in politics.

    God Bless,
    Br.Bruce
     
  18. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Br. Bruce...I believe that you misconstrued my intent. Pursuit of operating funding has been going on in Catholic parishes all of my life. And today it's very prevalent in fundamentalist oriented megachurches.

    If the Scientology Church's money pursuits were the only issue in Germany, then why not question raffles at St. Greenback Parrish, or bingo games in their basement on wed. evenings. In the US we have McDonalds' operating in megachurch lobbies.

    If it's only the money thingy then alter the constitution to prohibit certain money vacuuming activities.Treat all churches fairly and equally. Constitutionally banning or excluding an entire Church of a specific denomiation is discriminatory by definition. What's acceptable for one behavior should be acceptable for all behaviors. To me it's all a matter of fairness across the board. I am not advocating Scientology per se or what they do or what they stand for.

    flow....:rolleyes:
     
  19. Bruce Michael

    Bruce Michael New Member

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    I don't see anything wrong with churches receiving free will donations to support their activities. A "fee for service" is another thing- that is a commercial arrangement.

    And then there is the issue of charity. A good church will seek to help the needy- not just its own members but all who are needy in the world.

    No it's not just the money. Religions must also obey the law of the land- and that is what's at issue in Belgium:

    Worldandnation: Belgium builds case against Scientology

    And so, the authorities have gathered a case.
    What have the Secret Service in Germany discovered?

    We need to see the evidence before making a judgement.

    As I said before we must protect the freedom of religions, but also those religions should afford the same freedom to their followers. That means full disclosure of the organisation's history and structure, where their money goes, what happens to members' private information etc. Can they freely leave without pressure? Can they get a refund?

    These things should be enshrined in State law.


    -Br.Bruce
     
  20. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Hey Bro. Bruce...I really do agree with much of what you are saying, but the fact remains that in most constitutional democracies, legislating belief is verbotten. The actions which the German and Belgian Governments are undertaking seem to be bordering on discrimination activities. A fine line to balance upon.

    flow....;)
     

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