Desireless Sex

[Penguin]

If someone told you that the purpose of digestion was to create turds or the visible result of digestion you would think it absurd.

Shouldn't that be abturd? LOL Sorry, I know it's a serious post but when I read this sentence it caused me to have a serious laughing fit and spill my tea. Nice one!

 

[greymare]

lol, mybad.
A smoke and a cuppa is nice but it doesnt count on the "instead of" scale. LOL. I'm presuming you mean by ten a day, smokes, not "naughtiness". lol.

Im sure you do OK, penguin, lol, Im sure you do. LOL.
Its ok, Im laughing at me, not you.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

A man with two women had better watch his back. That's all I have to say about that.

Okay, sex beyond desire, if you must. What's that like? I can't imagine that it could contain role playing, so...pretty much everything kinky is out. No spanking, obviously. No dress up games. Maybe cuddling, and stroking, and raising your kundalini or something chakra-y, but no naughty stuff.

Maybe it's all about power. Sex, in a cultural sense, seems to be about establishing, and ceremonially reinforcing a social pogrom of domination and submission roles. Take away the will to power and the need to procreate. What kind of sex happens without those two things?

Chris

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Well, Chris, that's because your wife owns it...

My wife has my nuts in a shoe box somewhere. I really don't need them anymore.

Chris

 

[Quahom1]

Whatever it is I'm sure it beats the dirty, regrettable and guilt ridden sex of Judeo-Christianity.

Lol, I got no problems with guilt or regret, or getting dirty. Washing up together after is fun too...

of course there is that little thing called love that makes it all work together and worth while.

 

[seattlegal]

Okay, sex beyond desire, if you must. What's that like? I can't imagine that it could contain role playing, so...pretty much everything kinky is out. No spanking, obviously. No dress up games. Maybe cuddling, and stroking, and raising your kundalini or something chakra-y, but no naughty stuff.

Maybe it's all about power. Sex, in a cultural sense, seems to be about establishing, and ceremonially reinforcing a social pogrom of domination and submission roles. Take away the will to power and the need to procreate. What kind of sex happens without those two things?

Chris

That's really interesting, Chris. It reminds me about God telling Eve after the fall that her craving would be towards her husband, but he would dominate her. Interesting how desire lead them to partake of the fruit of the tree to begin with.

 

[Penguin]

lol, mybad.
A smoke and a cuppa is nice but it doesnt count on the "instead of" scale. LOL

You'd be surprised, I have some nice tea's!

I'm presuming you mean by ten a day, smokes, not "naughtiness". lol.

I like to smoke after making love so I'm a 10-a-day man! LOL (joke) I'm 35 knocking on a bit you know but I can still surprise Mrs.Penguin at times

Im sure you do OK, penguin, lol, Im sure you do. LOL.
Its ok, Im laughing at me, not you.

Yeah baby yeah!

 

[The Dude]

Somehow I think the title of this thread was intentionally designed to "turn people off" to Buddhism. LOL.

Kidding aside if that actually is the case it might be good to remind you of what they say about people who live in glass houses.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Somehow I think the title of this thread was intentionally designed to "turn people off" to Buddhism. LOL.

Kidding aside if that actually is the case it might be good to remind you of what they say about people who live in glass houses.

I don't understand what I'm supposed to want from my sexuality. On the one hand I absolutely despise the objectification of women. On the other my programming is right out of Penthouse, Playboy, and Hustler, as well as TV and the rest of the media universe. I can't seem to escape that. So I'm wondering what's natural, and it seems like it has to be found beyond all the power plays and pre fabricated roles. That sounds like Buddhist territory, maybe. Anyway, I wanted to try to write about it since it's a really hard subject to write on, and because it's something that I've been thinking about.

Chris

 

[Netti-Netti]

That's really interesting, Chris. It reminds me about God telling Eve after the fall that her craving would be towards her husband, but he would dominate her. Interesting how desire lead them to partake of the fruit of the tree to begin with.

Actually I think it's referring to the affliction that Adam experiences due to Eve's dependency. This is a classic archetype for interpersonal dukkha. Using a term from the Christian literature, you could call it one of the "punishments."

Eve is haunted by one issue: "Am I Respected?"
Adam is haunted by another: "Why do you keep asking me?"

The net result is a perpetual mismatch in terms of each their respective personal goal investments, beliefs and attitudes. Interesting how desire to become godlike in wisdom ends up being experienced as interpersonal dukkha.

Anyway, I wanted to try to write about it since it's a really hard subject to write on, and because it's something that I've been thinking about.

Chris, maybe look into Carl Jung on Anima-Animus. One of our developmental tasks is to become complete by integrating opposite gender aspects. Sometimes there is confusion about the nature of the task, which prolly has more to do with what's going on with the person than with their significant other relationship.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

That's really interesting, Chris. It reminds me about God telling Eve after the fall that her craving would be towards her husband, but he would dominate her. Interesting how desire lead them to partake of the fruit of the tree to begin with.

That's interesting SG. Are you sure it was desire? I'll have to think about that.

.....

Hmmm....

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Chris, maybe look into Carl Jung on Anima-Animus. One of our developmental tasks is to become complete by integrating opposite gender aspects. Sometimes there is confusion about the nature of the task, which prolly has more to do with what's going on with the person than with their significant other relationship.

It could be that moment when the divine androgen is split. I hadn't thought of the "Fall" in exactly that way before.

More hmm..........

 

[The Dude]

I don't understand what I'm supposed to want from my sexuality. On the one hand I absolutely despise the objectification of women. On the other my programming is right out of Penthouse, Playboy, and Hustler, as well as TV and the rest of the media universe. I can't seem to escape that. So I'm wondering what's natural, and it seems like it has to be found beyond all the power plays and pre fabricated roles. That sounds like Buddhist territory, maybe. Anyway, I wanted to try to write about it since it's a really hard subject to write on, and because it's something that I've been thinking about.

For some strange reason. I don't believe you. LOL.

But if you are sincere and you want to take Buddhist approach to sex try tantric sex and loose yourself and all your "programming" in the act itself.

 

[seattlegal]

For some strange reason. I don't believe you. LOL.

But if you are sincere and you want to take Buddhist approach to sex try tantric sex and loose yourself and all your "programming" in the act itself.

Actually, employing 'mindfulness' in sex might be a better place to start, from a Buddhist standpoint.
(Being able to control your desire is sexy.)

 

[seattlegal]

That's interesting SG. Are you sure it was desire? I'll have to think about that.

.....

Hmmm....

Genesis 3
4 "No! You will not die," the serpent said to the woman. (C) 5 "In fact, God knows that when [a] you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, [b] knowing good and evil." 6 Then the woman saw that the tree was good for food and delightful to look at, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom. So she took some of its fruit and ate [it]; she also gave [some] to her husband, [who was] with her, and he ate [it]. (D) 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves.​

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Look, uh... I wasn't looking for help with my sex life. Let's keep it philosophical.

So SG, is Eve's new desire for her husband, and the resulting submission on her part that's implied- is that a curse, or a description of how sex gets started? The narrative mentions that the couple then become aware of their nakedness, which, presumably goes along with their new state of consciousness.

Chris

 

[The Dude]

Actually, employing 'mindfulness' in sex might be a better place to start, from a Buddhist standpoint.
(Being able to control your desire is sexy.)

Exactly you are mindful of what you are doing and experiencing not of your self and all of your conditioning. To loose oneself (i.e. to let go of the ego, become your not-self, etc.) is the whole gist of Buddhism.

Zen Buddhists specifically would call the loosing of one's self in the act of trantic sex small satori.

 

[seattlegal]

Actually I think it's referring to the affliction that Adam experiences due to Eve's dependency. This is a classic archetype for interpersonal dukkha. Using a term from the Christian literature, you could call it one of the "punishments."

Eve is haunted by one issue: "Am I Respected?"
Adam is haunted by another: "Why do you keep asking me?"

Look, uh... I wasn't looking for help with my sex life. Let's keep it philosophical.

So SG, is Eve's new desire for her husband, and the resulting submission on her part that's implied- is that a curse, or a description of how sex gets started? The narrative mentions that the couple then become aware of their nakedness, which, presumably goes along with their new state of consciousness.

Chris

Interestingly, oxytocin also produces emotional depression along with its effects of increasing maternal behavior, feelings of trust and bonding, and reducing fear.

 

[Netti-Netti]

So SG, is Eve's new desire for her husband, and the resulting submission on her part that's implied- is that a curse, or a description of how sex gets started?

A Jungian view of Eve's emotional dependence on Adam might suggest that it's a woman being out of touch with her masculine side and looking to Adam to complete her instead of finding strength within herself, thereby becoming a more balanced and whole person.

For men the issue would be getting in touch with their feminine side. The man's developmental task is to integrate the feminine capacity for intuition and feeling ("Eros"). This task may start to become more salient in mid life. Because women represent the feminine side, midlife men may become more interested in other women. This could be the man confusing the developmental task of becoming more a more caring/ nurturing person himself with establishing a new romantic relationship. An instance of looking to the opposite sex person to complete him instead of doing what it takes to become a more balanced and whole person.

The attraction may indicate more about the male's psyche than about the woman he's attracted to - i.e., needing to integrate the gender opposite aspect. I'd predict that men who started out with masculine careers or who identify with a masculine world view (control or imposition of order and dominance) would be most strongly attracted to a very feminine woman.

(As a sidenote, women may pick up on the masculine trend intuitively and make a point of presenting either as fragile/dependent or as very sexual/seductive if they want to keep the tough guy's interest. Jung would say that the most disastrous opposite sex entanglements involve people who are unclear about their anima/animus values, resulting in mutually reinforcing mental confusion. A woman who needs to develop her independence and initiative may find herself in a more dependent situation and may feel stagnant and unable to move forward. A man who needs to develop his emotional side may find himself in a situation where he is caught up in heavy duty instrumental tasks concerned with modifying the physical environment instead of doing essential soul work.

Jungians might say that a man who's looking for love sees the new woman is a anima projection - an external image of his own inner drive toward becoming a more emotionally balanced person. The new attraction may combine an idealization of women and sex with a deepening sense of incompleteness. There may also be an element of fear because at some level the man feels personally threatened: getting in touch with the feminine side can mean an major, unpredictable change in identity and lifestyle. The fear and resistance to change may add energy to the unintegrated aspect. Exaggerated versions of opposite sex behavior (like cross-dressing) indicate a lack of emotional integration. The overt acting out may serve the purpose of creating a smoke screen to help the individual avoid doing the inner work.

Another possible smoke screen is intensified masculine behavior - e.g. a somewhat feminine man buying a big motorcycle or heavy duty construction vehicle even though they don't construction work, or all of a sudden taking up a manly occupation.

Yes, there are many ways of dealing with the "divine androgen split."

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

Interestingly, oxytocin also produces emotional depression along with its effects of increasing maternal behavior, feelings of trust and bonding, and reducing fear.

I remember that they gave my wife pitocin when she was in labor with our oldest child. Thanks for this info, it's very interesting.

Chris