The Garden of Eden

Yes, there is more genetic diversity between certain tribal people in Africa within a square mile of each other than there is between someone of Asian descent and European descent, or between most other races. So that's why they're thinkin that the first humans started out there.

Spot on. And it is thus impossible to be sure if there was a common language amongst all humans in Africa at the point the population that left Africa to become non-Africans. There is no doubt modern man is African no matter his hue and that he evolved in Africa from Homo erectus over some 70,000 - 100,000 years.
 
Yes one time we all had the same language....grunt...
Then why would someone all of a sudden, decide to make a rosetta stone, about the time babel fell? And why only four distinct languages of which every other current language can be traced to?
 
Spot on. And it is thus impossible to be sure if there was a common language amongst all humans in Africa at the point the population that left Africa to become non-Africans. There is no doubt modern man is African no matter his hue and that he evolved in Africa from Homo erectus over some 70,000 - 100,000 years.
And our bone structure changed that significantly within that span of time? As did our lung capacity, and our ligaments for legs and, our respective kidney functions?

That has got to be the fastest evolution/adaptation in the history of life on earth!!!

Let me go one further...the Norsemen live in the high mountains of Europe...and they are tall, massive and blond, with fair skin.

The High folk of the Andes live in high mountains of South America...and they are short, slight, and brown, with dark skin...

Elevations of the two mountain ranges: nominal

Air percentage of the two environments: nominal

Sun shine/cloud cover of the two places: nominal

Ability to handle the rarified oxygen...the same: nominal

Why is it that two distinctly different looking people live in similar climates? And they have no real genetic disposition towards each other?
 
Four?? Our native's in the US had more than four languages with roots that can't be traced.

The stories are made to explain the unexplainable millenia ago.
 
Spot on. And it is thus impossible to be sure if there was a common language amongst all humans in Africa at the point the population that left Africa to become non-Africans. There is no doubt modern man is African no matter his hue and that he evolved in Africa from Homo erectus over some 70,000 - 100,000 years.
Oh my Adam and Eve were black??

Yes the fact that caucasion was a mutation will bother us forever....I don't care if it is your garden, your going to jail er jail, er jail...
 
kinda different tangent....
I often wonder if we(humans) were the "introduced species", i mean, there is plant and animal life in the harshest of climates, and yet man is the one species that had to change the environment around us to survive, its like the animals and plants belong here and we just dont belong.

sorry, i know this is contradictory to the thread,... i was just thinking out loud.
 
Dude, Q, have you ever met the curious little creature known as the dog?

Visible and structural change is fairly quick to take hold, and does not create much genetic change at all.
Two Rotties, three Gray Tabbies, one current Black as midnight kitten, a dozen gold fish in an outside pond, and 16 (sixteen) ferrets...why do dogs and ferrets adapt so fast, but cats and goldfish never do?..:confused::eek::D
 
Then why would someone all of a sudden, decide to make a rosetta stone, about the time babel fell? And why only four distinct languages of which every other current language can be traced to?
To which tao provided (oh and over thirty distinct NA language families...

According to the numbers in Ethnologue[1], the largest language families in terms of number of languages are the following. Some families are controversial, and in many the language count varies between researchers.
  1. Niger-Congo (1,514 languages)
  2. Austronesian (1,268 languages)
  3. Trans–New Guinea (564 languages) (number disputed; Malcolm Ross excludes about a hundred of these)
  4. Indo-European (449 languages)
  5. Sino-Tibetan (403 languages)
  6. Afro-Asiatic (375 languages)
  7. Nilo-Saharan (204 languages)
  8. Pama-Nyungan (178 languages)
  9. Oto-Manguean (174 languages) (number varies; Lyle Campbell counts 27)
  10. Austro-Asiatic (169 languages)
  11. Sepik-Ramu (100 languages) (broken up by Malcolm Ross, with the Sepik family retaining 50)
  12. Tai-Kadai (76 languages)
  13. Tupi (76 languages)
  14. Dravidian (73 languages)
  15. Mayan (69 languages)
How many can you speak fluently Tao?

I know one who can vouche for the fact that I speak 5 fluently...

Are you sure I don't understand the diversity and the commonality of something as simple as vocal language?:eek:

I could be off...been there before...:D
So Q, obviously your research does differ, but what the heck does your speaking 5 languages have anything to do with your mistatement about their only being 4 root languages?
 
Two Rotties, three Gray Tabbies, one current Black as midnight kitten, a dozen gold fish in an outside pond, and 16 (sixteen) ferrets...why do dogs and ferrets adapt so fast, but cats and goldfish never do?..:confused::eek::D
they eat their young....faster than you can see them hatched, unless you are there....
 
To which tao provided (oh and over thirty distinct NA language families...


According to the numbers in Ethnologue[1], the largest language families in terms of number of languages are the following. Some families are controversial, and in many the language count varies between researchers.
  1. Niger-Congo (1,514 languages)
  2. Austronesian (1,268 languages)
  3. Trans–New Guinea (564 languages) (number disputed; Malcolm Ross excludes about a hundred of these)
  4. Indo-European (449 languages)
  5. Sino-Tibetan (403 languages)
  6. Afro-Asiatic (375 languages)
  7. Nilo-Saharan (204 languages)
  8. Pama-Nyungan (178 languages)
  9. Oto-Manguean (174 languages) (number varies; Lyle Campbell counts 27)
  10. Austro-Asiatic (169 languages)
  11. Sepik-Ramu (100 languages) (broken up by Malcolm Ross, with the Sepik family retaining 50)
  12. Tai-Kadai (76 languages)
  13. Tupi (76 languages)
  14. Dravidian (73 languages)
  15. Mayan (69 languages)
So Q, obviously your research does differ, but what the heck does your speaking 5 languages have anything to do with your mistatement about their only being 4 root languages?
Excellent question Wil...thank you. Because they are all based on common syntax... unless any language is from another planet...any human can figure out what anyother human is trying to communicate...if they want to...we already have the base language in us.
 
Two Rotties, three Gray Tabbies, one current Black as midnight kitten, a dozen gold fish in an outside pond, and 16 (sixteen) ferrets...why do dogs and ferrets adapt so fast, but cats and goldfish never do?..:confused::eek::D

I don't really know about ferrets but I wants one. Hmm, do you think that practical training in caring for a squirrel would sufficiently prepare me for a ferret? I mean, squirrels are crazy, ferrets are crazy... they just seem similar to me somehow... anywho...

Well, kitties and goldfish have adapted in different paths within the scecies over the years. It's just not as dramatic as with dogs.

I'm pretty sure that it's all due to human interference. Dogs can just do more work than cats, and are easily trainable because of their pack mentality.

They are just more useful for more types of things than cats or goldfish. I'm pretty sure that's it. Dogs are fascinating. Cats also really but not to the same degree for what I'm talking about. I mean if it weren't for humans there pretty much wouldn't be dogs. That's crazy if you think about it. I mean, we pretty much created a species. But dogs even with all the tinkering are still genetically similar enough to breed with wolves. Like a chihuahua and a wolf could breed. Successfully. Well, a male chihuahua and a female wolf...with, like, maybe a step ladder or somethin to help the little guy out... :p

It's crazy tho. Humans are mad scientists! look at all the mutations and rapid evolution we have caused in so many things. Dang, we just like to meddle with stuff.

I think I just broke my brain...Peace.
 
As FYI, linguistic and cognitive research strongly support that the commonality in languages are not due (necessarily) to common linguistic ancestry, but rather to hard-wiring of the human brain. i.e., see Chomsky's research.

It is not so much that we all once spoke the same language, and therefore can learn other people's languages, as it is that language, being a uniquely human phenomenon, is intimately tied in its structural workings to that of the human brain.

We may have had a relatively unified form of communication at some point, however, since it is possible that people radiated out of Africa the first time (with H. erectus, unlikely to have had full language) but then did once again later (with modern H. sapiens, who may well have had full language). It's really difficult to figure out when language emerges in the human evolutionary lineage because the potential for a full range of sounds and the associated slight uneven development of the brain (left and right hemisphere) is extremely difficult to see in the fossil record, as it has to do with soft tissues, which don't preserve. The capacity for language has a lot to do with the placement of the hyoid bone and the soft tissue structures in the throat- chimps and other apes lack the capacity for linguistic virtuousity in part because the placement of their vocal cords and epiglottis high up in the throat. Incidentally, the upside of this for them is that choking hardly ever happens. Humans pay the price for linguistic virtuosity by a much higher risk of choking to death, especially as little kids learn to master breathing, swallowing, and making noise at the same time.

I tend to think the Tower of Babel story is useful in terms of meaning, but probably does not correspond to a literal global single language time period. Perhaps it corresponds to a literal Middle East single language time period, which would have encompassed the known world at the time and therefore be considered global by the folks who authored the story. Similar to the flood... a local but widespread event, misinterpreted as a global event, since it included everyone and everywhere that was known at the time.
 
Yup, and you also have to factor in the super volcano in Lake Toba, Indonesia that caused a genetic and cultural bottleneck. It would have wiped out whole people and their variations in language and may have caused a merging of languages as people of different tongues banded together for survival.

Humans have payed in other ways for their large craniums. Like babies being born what would seem premature, and defenseless for quite a long period in the animal kingdom. That was most likely caused by a combination of upright walking and consequent positioning and reshaping of the pelvic bone, and also a larger Cranium for body size than any other animal.

Thankfully our intelligence, linguistic skills and large social groups made up for those handicaps.

I also agree on your assessment of the babel story. It's hard to imagine nowadays because we are so very connected and up to date with all happenings in far away lands. This age is certainly a strange one.
 
kinda different tangent....
I often wonder if we(humans) were the "introduced species", i mean, there is plant and animal life in the harshest of climates, and yet man is the one species that had to change the environment around us to survive, its like the animals and plants belong here and we just dont belong.

sorry, i know this is contradictory to the thread,... i was just thinking out loud.

This has to do with the post I just posted. Our greater intelligence is like the same as a snake's venom, or a cat's retractable claws. It is our weapon, evolved over time because it gave us certain advantages. It, and language, also gave us the ability to care about a larger number in our social groups. And that helps us overcome some of the side effects of two legged mobility and a massive skull. It also allows us to make the riggors of survival easier. Have you ever heard of "the monkeysphere?"

http://en.wikepedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

It's very interesting stuff, that. :D

By forming large social groups it makes raising food possible. Inteligence gives us the ability to manipulate what is around us to make our lives easier. Every creature has this ability to some extent. We just make better use of it, ("better" meaning more, not morally superior,) with our greater intelligence.

So we only seem so different because we look at ourselves as vastly different than animals. We tend to look at intelligence as the measuring rod of a creatures position in the world, because intelligence is our weapon. If you look at other creature's weapons evolved to make their lives easier, they are no less impressive, or effective, just different. If you looked at a human from a poisonous snake's perspective we humans would be seen as vastly inferior, because their measuring rod would be strength of venom. That is their tool. Any other creature would do the same according to the dominant tool they were evolved with.

So we aren't more different than every other creature. Just different in a different way... :)
 
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