Bishadi,
I am not perfect. Never said I was, but likewise you talking about my english yet you use religious words as if everyone of english would have an awareness of your religious observances. Like you said; many faith comes from the same book.
I use those words because you present firm opinions with little knowledge of Judaism. You disagree with statements that I, as someone who knows Judaism personally, have made and can back up with Jewish sources including Tanach, Talmud and later literature as well as the way things are done by the people today. You try to back yourself up by making arguments that aren't valid approaches within Judaism because they disregard basic Jewish ideas. If you're going to behave like you know what you're talking about then I will respond to you as if you do by using Jewish vocabulary. If you admit your own ignorance then I have no reason to continue doing so.
The thread is about the 'goal' of Judaism; and is opened to read others ideas and opinions but be certain you do not speak for the 'majority' of them.
You asked what the goal of Judaism is. I am a Jew. BB is also a Jew. We have answered you. Both of us strongly disagree with each other a lot of the time (go back a bit in the Jewish forums and you can find some interesting discussions between us along those lines) and yet we still both agree that you are wrong about Judaism and know very little about the religion.
You are speaking from your point of view as you believe everyone should.
I am not speaking from my POV. This isn't about my beliefs. It's about basic ideas in Judaism. My own beliefs are a separate issue and when someone asks a general question about Judaism I give general answers, not the specifics of my own worldview.
it's normal but please do not suggest we as human being are not watching the TV and see some guy (orthodox) suggesting that the temple mount must be rebuilt for the messiah to come. I know better and it seems you do too but you are not speaking FOR Judaism; just for you sect.
No I've already answered you regarding people like that and I am not speaking for my sect, nor could I very well since I am post-denominational and don't fully agree with any individual denomination. I am speaking of the general views within Judaism. Have you been reading my posts thoroughly? Did you see my mention of the Temple Institute? The people you point out are the crazies that I speak of. The majority of Orthodox Jews do not agree with them. Are you familiar with the concept of sensationalism in the media? More extreme views get more coverage. By that same token, there are some Orthodox Jews who are completely against the state of Israel as it exists today and wish to see the present state of Israel gone. They are also in the minority and also get more press because of media sensationalism. There are absolutists much like yourself who would argue that real Jews are anti-zionists based on the same flawed logic that you have used.
Madonna's not Jewish. She got into the Kabbalah Centre which is not a Jewish organization, nor do they claim to be.
R' Akiva is dead. He was killed by the Romans. Nor is your reference to him very relevant. If someone has died before fulfilling the messianic prophecies, e.g. Jesus, Bar Kokhba, Shabtai Tzvi among others, then they are not the Jewish messiah regardless of how some people. Jewish or non-Jewish may view them. Jesus may be something to Christianity and that's fine, but Judaism he's just another Jewish boy who was killed by the Romans.
that you started out fair and with kindness..... but since you speak for the majority of judaism, i am sure we will bump heads eventually..... as I am biased against anyone who secularizes against the truth...
Your language is hard to understand. It looks like you used the word secularize incorrectly. I've quoted the dictionary definition of secular below.
I don't claim that my own views are the majority Jewish views. I disagree with the majority quite regularly. However, I am well educated enough to know the views of the majority. You on the other hand base your opinion on a few Jews that you saw on a television show.
secular |ˈsekyələr|
adjective
1 denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis : secular buildings | secular moral theory. Contrasted with sacred .
2 Christian Church (of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule; not belonging to or living in a monastic or other order. Contrasted with regular .
3 Astronomy of or denoting slow changes in the motion of the sun or planets.
4 Economics (of a fluctuation or trend) occurring or persisting over an indefinitely long period : there is evidence that the slump is not cyclical but secular.
5 occurring once every century or similarly long period (used esp. in reference to celebratory games in ancient Rome).
Of course it is. Otherwise I wouldn't have said that it is. Do you have something worthwhile to say or are you just going to make snarky responses to me?
Name something of prophecy that was changed by a group changing their ways?
BB may be able to provide an example off the top of his head. I cannot nor is it terribly relevant. Whether or not people have changed their ways has nothing to do with whether that effects the outcome of prophecy. The view of Judaism is that it effects the outcome. Prophets in Judaism are not just some sort of seer as the English word prophet might suggest. The ability they sometimes have to see what others cannot is secondary to their role in pointing out the errors of people's actions and urging them toward teshuva. Then there are of course different types of prophets that fill different roles.
that birth has already occurred
Not according to Judaism.
Yours posts suggest otherwise.
so now to understand a book half the globe has access too, now we must do an ology of methods in order to comprhend the majority of youe religious order.
It has nothing to do with how much access there is to the book. The Tanach was taken by Christianity and interpreted very differently than it is in the context of Judaism. If you wish to understand Judaism's views of Torah then you need to understand the Torah in the context of Judaism. There isn't really a lot of exposure to the Tanach in the world either. There is exposure to translations that can be very poor due to both interpretive decisions by Christians, frequent basis in the Septuagint instead of the masoretic text for translation, and because it is regularly translated outside of its family of languages. Qorban and sacrifice mean two extremely different things. Even Tzedakah and charity mean different things. Sin and chayt mean two different things. If you want to understand a text, context is everything, and you have shown that you lack that.
you must be another of the 'chosen' to tell me how about defining. I brought the torah because talmut to me is 'less than' pure.... ....
If you don't consider the Talmud valid then why bring up questions about Judaism? The Talmud is a part of Judaism just like the Greek Testament is a part of Christianity. Why even bother in interfaith dialogue if you're only going to say to the very people you're attempting to engage with that their own books, about which you ask questions, aren't a valid answer to you? If I go to a Christian and I ask them about their beliefs, and they cite the Greek Testament, then I understand that for them that's what counts and I respect that. You should learn to do the same.
I don't know what you mean by "another of the 'chosen'" either. Judaism's view of chosenness is very different from how you probably consider it.
as it is like reading a ted haggard translation of the bible...
Because we explain to you what Judaism is? Were you expecting that we'd hear what you have to say and then say, "Oh gosh. We were mistaken. Our communities were all mistaken. Our families were all mistaken. This guy on a comparative religion forum understands our religion better than the Jewish people."?
the thread is to share a messianic belief of (a branch i guess) the judaistic faith in which the religious right (orthodox) actually believe they must build a new temple, often referred to in midrash
No the Orthodox don't believe that. A minority of the Orthodox do, just like a minority of the Orthodox believe that the Jewish state of Israel shouldn't exist at all and should be disbanded or worse. You are generalizing based on the minority. I am clarifying the majority.
but please tell me how wrong I am as it appears to if a line from david was right in front of you, you would not even know it
I've already told you how wrong you are repeatedly. You continue to claim a special authority about what Judaism is that disagrees with what Judaism says about itself.
or let me guess, you waiting for perfection!
I don't even know what you mean by that.
If you really are having a hard time understanding what I or anyone else is saying, it's not going to aide dialogue if you assume you understand. Admit you don't understand and ask for clarification.
-- Dauer